I know this is a loaded question(s), but there seems to be contradicting philosophies in the strength training world regarding these terms or how they interact. I think I’ll just list the questions I have.
Are muscle weaknesses the result of poor exercise technique? Like weak triceps for the bench press. How do muscles become a weakness in a specific lift? The reason I ask is because there are different philosophies to rectify the problem. The Bulgarian-type methods would be to keep benching until it’s no longer a weakness. The conjugate method’s answer would be ton’s of accessory work, the RAW lifters would say to eat more and gain weight. Some would say do more reps with a lower weight and blast through the sticking point. I’m just using the bench press as an example. If technique is decent and you are gaining size/weight how do particular muscles groups get left behind when they are being called upon? I can see how squirming/cheating could neglect a muscle, but if technique and diet is “on” is accessory work necessary? I.E. If done correctly you’d think that bench pressing would put a huge demand on the triceps. Wouldn’t adding accessory work to an already exhausted muscle be counterproductive? I think identifying weaknesses is the hardest part for an advanced lifter.
[quote]QE4 wrote:
I know this is a loaded question(s), but there seems to be contradicting philosophies in the strength training world regarding these terms or how they interact. I think I’ll just list the questions I have.
Are muscle weaknesses the result of poor exercise technique? Like weak triceps for the bench press. How do muscles become a weakness in a specific lift? The reason I ask is because there are different philosophies to rectify the problem. The Bulgarian-type methods would be to keep benching until it’s no longer a weakness. The conjugate method’s answer would be ton’s of accessory work, the RAW lifters would say to eat more and gain weight. Some would say do more reps with a lower weight and blast through the sticking point. I’m just using the bench press as an example. If technique is decent and you are gaining size/weight how do particular muscles groups get left behind when they are being called upon? I can see how squirming/cheating could neglect a muscle, but if technique and diet is “on” is accessory work necessary? I.E. If done correctly you’d think that bench pressing would put a huge demand on the triceps. Wouldn’t adding accessory work to an already exhausted muscle be counterproductive? I think identifying weaknesses is the hardest part for an advanced lifter. [/quote]
Simple solution - do what works for you. Experimentation. It all works to a degree, some more and some less depending on who you are and what you’re body reacts to. Don’t forget proper diet and recovery. Those are a major factor in the success or failure of training.
It’d be really cool if I could say yes or no or if x and y are present than do z, but really it all boils down to how you as an individual responds to certain stumli. This will depend on many different factors and can even change through time. And really the only way to find out is experience with different methodologies.
Things like training age, actual age, limb proportions, psychology, your schedule, stress levels, priorities, natural hormonal levels, exogenous hormonal levels, nervous system efficiency, and on and on and on.
You are hinting at some interesting questions imo. I think I have answers to most of them, but I won’t get into here (just a shitty format to properly deal with anything substantial). I recommend you keep researching and forget about seeking answers on lifting forums.
We certainly know more than “it depends” or “do what works for you” bullshit.
[quote]Ecchastang wrote:
There will always be a weakness, a sticky point, a point of failure. [/quote]
This.
Every style of Squatting, Benching, and Deadlifting will have its’ weakness because of weak mechanical leverage points at some point in the range of motion.
[quote]QE4 wrote:
Are muscle weaknesses the result of poor exercise technique? Like weak triceps for the bench press. How do muscles become a weakness in a specific lift? The reason I ask is because there are different philosophies to rectify the problem. The Bulgarian-type methods would be to keep benching until it’s no longer a weakness. The conjugate method’s answer would be ton’s of accessory work, the RAW lifters would say to eat more and gain weight. Some would say do more reps with a lower weight and blast through the sticking point. I’m just using the bench press as an example. If technique is decent and you are gaining size/weight how do particular muscles groups get left behind when they are being called upon? I can see how squirming/cheating could neglect a muscle, but if technique and diet is “on” is accessory work necessary? I.E. If done correctly you’d think that bench pressing would put a huge demand on the triceps. Wouldn’t adding accessory work to an already exhausted muscle be counterproductive? I think identifying weaknesses is the hardest part for an advanced lifter.[/quote]
Mike Tuchscherer talked about this somewhat in a way I agree with. He says that actually pinpointing a specific muscle as being the weak link in a compound lift is virtually impossible and not worth your time. For example in the deadlift someone might claim their hamstrings are the weak point holding them back from a bigger pull. Maybe. Or maybe it’s their setup or maybe it’s something they’re doing with their form during the lift or maybe it’s actually their lower back that’s weak and they feel it more in their hamstrings because they’re doing extra work.
The inter-connectivity of muscles and joints and angles during a compound lift is nearly always too complicated to accurately pinpoint an exact muscle that’s holding you back. And in the end, it’s not worth your time worrying about because the answer should be the same anyway. Keep doing the lift with correct form. There will always be something in your body that fails first when you miss a weight. Whatever that “weak point” is will get stronger eventually if you just keep doing the lift the same way. Whatever is holding it back will adapt to get stronger and your lift will gradually improve.
So what you’re saying is keep taking reps with the main lift? Maybe the gains come slow as an advanced lifter because they’ve exhausted their beginner neurological gains. Despite having slow gains throughout the years, they are still coming. I like the Bulgarian philosophy of being concerned about “daily minimums” instead of maximums, as long as they are moving up you are doing something right.
Personally, I believe that specificity and lots of reps is the key. Eventually you will get stronger like you mentioned. The reason I say this is because if “one” lifter can train just the big three and make progress so can everyone else. I don’t buy into the “everyones different” philosophy. We are basically the same biologically. I believe in dose response relationships. Read Dr.Doug McGuff’s theory about dose response in exercise. Maybe accessory work if done correctly can just speed up the process, granted it can eat up recovery. But on the other hand accessory work helps build fatigue which can also enhance fitness in the long run.
You might not see the positive effects of accessory work in the middle of a training cycle because it might be too much to recover from on a workout to workout basis. But at the end of a cycle when the fatigue dissipates the extra isolation reps will pay off. I don’t know where I’m going with this, but I feel a lot of trainees frustration lies at the root of this problem. The reason I say that is because it would be great if somehow we could miraculously know our weaknesses. If you want controversy just ask “What is the cause of leaning forward in the squat as the weight gets to 90%+”.
One camp will say posterior chain, but another camp will say weak quads or anterior chain. The hypothesis is the body is smart and will put the weight on the stronger muscles. Since you are doing a GM the body is saying the posterior chain is strong so it’ll use that. The conclusion is you have weak quads. But another expert will somehow rationalize that it’s something else.
[quote]QE4 wrote:
I can see how squirming/cheating could neglect a muscle, but if technique and diet is “on” is accessory work necessary? I.E. If done correctly you’d think that bench pressing would put a huge demand on the triceps. Wouldn’t adding accessory work to an already exhausted muscle be counterproductive? I think identifying weaknesses is the hardest part for an advanced lifter. [/quote]
If you need to “fill out” to get better at a lift accessory work is an effective way to do it rather than just relying on the main lifts. Look at the EMG studies on this site for the triceps (for example). You get way more triceps activity from skullcrushers than you do from relatively heavy bench presses.