T Nation

AC Joint and GH


#1

Heres a little history before I get into the problem at hand:

24 y/o 210lbs @ 5'10 13%bf - training seriously for 4 years

I have ran 4 AAS cycles which brought me from 160lbs to 210lbs over the last 4 years.

I recently embarked on the journey with GH due to injuries acquired during my time in the military as well in the gym. I suffer from a pretty bad bout of Osgood Schlatters in my right knee which has been inflamed for years, as well as a pretty bad imbalance between both shoulders as I had a deep fracture in my left humerus as a child. Ever since then I have had instability issues. As of late, while doing a power routine, I strained/sprained the AC joint (classified as type 1 by SP).

I started using HK's grey 7 weeks ago, starting at 2iu 5 on 2 off and ramping up .5iu/week after week 4. I am now currently at 4iu but noticing the nagging shoulder pain isn't getting much better. Is there any possibility that the joint irritation caused by GH is adding to the pre existing issue? I haven't been able to lift chest or shoulders for about 3 weeks and have been continuously trying to rehab the supportive tissue in my shoulders while still hitting legs and back in the gym.

My purpose of incorporating GH into my regimen was to help heal pre existing injuries as well as prevent injuries and maintain good body composition while continuing to grow. I have held off on starting another AAS cycle until I am injury free and feeling 100% but it feels like that won't be happening anytime soon.

Looking for some experienced GH users who have dealt with injuries like this and what I can look for, or what I need to be doing to overcome the drawbacks. I have searched far and wide and I find stuff on AC joint rehab and injuries, and stuff with GH and joints, but never in the same article considering both at once.

Considering I am only 7 weeks in with GH I know I am quite a ways away from really seeing the benefits, but curious if I should stay at 4iu or even taper back down? My goal was originally be hitting 5-8iu 5/2 for the next year or so.


#2

I’m familiar with the source you are using. I have no experience with gh yet but have you had any bloodwork done to confirm what you’re taking is good?


#3

Ordering my labs from privateMD this week to confirm. It took me a long time to pull the trigger on a GH source, but TP and HK both have consistently proven time and time again to provide quality growth, confirmed by labs. I myself want that assurance though. I know generics are inconsistent and believe it or not I can feel it. One vial my hands will be sore as hell, and the next they’ll be just numb.


#4

Please please post results!


#5

Will do.

I’m hoping BBB has some answers or knowledge to drop on me for this one


#6

he hasn’t posted here in quite some time. :frowning:


#7

Well i think 7 weeks isnt quite long enough.

I had a grade 3 AC separation almost 5 years ago, even though yours isn’t quite as bad I had a very long recovery.


#8

[quote]BUDs wrote:
Well i think 7 weeks isnt quite long enough.

I had a grade 3 AC separation almost 5 years ago, even though yours isn’t quite as bad I had a very long recovery. [/quote]

Yea I am expecting atleast 4 months before I notice much. Just trying to determine whether or not to stay at 4iu for now, and continue to ramp up progressively, or to drop down to 2-3iu. I don’t have to much joint pain overall, just legs, feet, hands and arms go numb often. Before I got hurt I couldn’t deadlift without straps cause my hands hurt so bad.

I appreciate that outlook. Im lucky it wasn’t a separation. just a strain/sprain. What did you do for your recovery?


#9

4ui isn’t bad Id say, but im no gh expert. Did you start the gh before your injury?

Would they go numb before or after the gh?

Your hand pain before or after the gh?

Well your a lot better off then me but it was 8 months before I could pick up any weights. It would hurt to even do legs. It’s amazing how much you don’t realize how every movement effects your shoulder until an injury, From walking to sitting, standing.

I actually wasn’t on any gear or anything. I did stretches multiple times a day, everyday, so I didn’t lose mobility. Then when I could I started using resistant bands, then progressed into very very light weights.


#10

Rest is gonna be your best medicine for recovery. Take it easy for a bit. It sucks, but you cant do anything that causes pain. An AC sprain isnt serious but it can be if you push it too hard. You really dont want a rotator cuff or labral tear either. That shit will keep you out of the gym for months.


#11

[quote]BUDs wrote:
4ui isn’t bad Id say, but im no gh expert. Did you start the gh before your injury?

Would they go numb before or after the gh?

Your hand pain before or after the gh?

Well your a lot better off then me but it was 8 months before I could pick up any weights. It would hurt to even do legs. It’s amazing how much you don’t realize how every movement effects your shoulder until an injury, From walking to sitting, standing.

I actually wasn’t on any gear or anything. I did stretches multiple times a day, everyday, so I didn’t lose mobility. Then when I could I started using resistant bands, then progressed into very very light weights.[/quote]

Yes I actually started the GH about 3 weeks before the injury. So I think in that sense, I psychologically pushed myself harder because I believed I could get away with it. I also was going wide on my heavy bench days which isn’t smart without a suit. That and doing bench twice a week, and cleans, and deads, just set me up for disaster.

My hands started going numb pretty shortly after starting.

Hand pain started pretty shortly after as well. I am on my 3rd day of no GH just to see if the joints would go down, and everything has subsided besides my shoulder. My appt with the ortho doc I see is next week just to double tap and make sure its not something worse than what I perceive it to be.

And that is exactly how i feel. I feel it constantly. standing up, turning, etc. I am starting to question if its an impingement as opposed to a strain/sprain in the AC joint though, due to the pain radiating to the collar bone, scapula, as well as down the rotator cuff. I have been able to maintain mobility as I stretch/foam roll at least 2-3 times a day.

I remember tearing BOTH rotator cuffs about 5 years ago, and that put me out for a while. Its been about a month since this issue started so I am really itching to get it figured out and start getting back to strength. In the mean time I am gonna maintain the 4iu 5/2 and hope for the best.

Thanks for the input everyone.


#12

I suspect your numbing hands are from the gh. You can try breaking up the doses into 2 smaller doses throughout the day.


#13

Why 5/2 why not just every day?

As far as the numbing hands go. My buddy had some problem from same source. He had to lower the dose


#14

Ive had a AC joint seperation, shaved a AC joint down, and even a slap tear… After my slap tear and bone shaving I got on HGH… I’ve tried several brands & been on about 3yrs… Sorry to tell you this but it wont cure you like a Indiana Jones movie holy grail. It will however help you speed up recovery a few months after surgery. But it wont repair your torn up shit…Get a MRI figure out whats wrong get surgery at a place that deals with athletes not old farts, eat heal…Then juice and rehab… Just like bulking you need lots of protien while healing from surgery.

Ive tried IM and SQ plus different protocals TBO I think SQ 5/2 in a range of 2-4ius first thing in morning is fine… Start slow and ramp up over some weeks so you can avoid the sides…Its gonna suck for a year you will be not so diesel however the HGH might shave that down to 9months


#15

[quote]eatliftsleep wrote:
Why 5/2 why not just every day?
[/quote]

^^^

5/2 = way to save money and ineffective protocol. Either ed, eod or 6 on 1 off.


#16

[quote]nooberific wrote:

[quote]eatliftsleep wrote:
Why 5/2 why not just every day?
[/quote]

^^^

5/2 = way to save money and ineffective protocol. Either ed, eod or 6 on 1 off.

[/quote]

Ineffective or not optimal? Eod seems worse. I would just do every day.


#17

[quote]eatliftsleep wrote:

[quote]nooberific wrote:

[quote]eatliftsleep wrote:
Why 5/2 why not just every day?
[/quote]

^^^

5/2 = way to save money and ineffective protocol. Either ed, eod or 6 on 1 off.

[/quote]

Ineffective or not optimal? Eod seems worse. I would just do every day.
[/quote]

It has no proven evidence to back it. It’s just a way for people who can’t really afford hgh to save money and make their uis last just that much longer.

From what I have read up on eod… it has a lot of proven merit behind it… The idea is to run double your dosage eod. I personally run 6 on 1 off though. I know even doctors/instructions state to run eod.


#18

Oh ok gotcha. Yeah i haven’t done much reading on it but i need to start.


#19

Eod or e3d mimics the natural secretion of gh in the human body.

5/2 was the way to save some IUs, it works but there’s other ways to do it.


#20

So here is the deal after a few days. Returned to using GH at 4iu/day for the time being. 2iu wake up, 2iu PreWO.

I am now doing 6/1 and only taking one day off. I am considering going EOD but I just am not sure that my body can handle the sides from pulsing the doses that high. I may try it to see, but not until my body is accustomed to the GH and the sides lessen. The numbness and aches suck, can’t even hold a 135lb barbell for BO rows. Pumps are stupid too. Lower back mainly.

Overall as far as the shoulders, definitely the swelling of the joints from the GH. I am realizing there is some stiffness if I do not maintain mobility stretches 2-3x a day. Because I haven’t done bench/shoulders in 4 weeks and my other shoulder is starting to pinch near the AC, and Rotator cuff, and sometimes near the scapula. Tbh, the pumps from this stuff is more than I anticipated. I knew from a couple close sources that HK generics are known to be pretty potent, and its turning out to be so. Lifting half the amount of weight and getting skin tearing pumps, and aches/numbness when I am not lifting.

Have any of you guys experienced or have any knowledge of effective protocols for GH? I have wanted to try the EOD protocol but like i said, feel like running double my doses per day would do more harm than good at this point (if i was on pharma then it probably wouldn’t be an issue).