Abuse of Police Powers

JD430, what do you think citizens should do when confronted with Abuse of Police Powers?

“Do Nothing” seems like a pathetic response,

and

“Bloody Revolution” seems too much.

[quote]Natasel wrote:
JD430, what do you think citizens should do when confronted with Abuse of Police Powers?

“Do Nothing” seems like a pathetic response,

and

“Bloody Revolution” seems too much.[/quote]

I’m not JD430, but it depends on the level of abuse. Most abuses of police powers can be addressed through the courts.

Some abuses do require “bloody revolution.”

[quote]nephorm wrote:
Natasel wrote:
JD430, what do you think citizens should do when confronted with Abuse of Police Powers?

“Do Nothing” seems like a pathetic response,

and

“Bloody Revolution” seems too much.

I’m not JD430, but it depends on the level of abuse. Most abuses of police powers can be addressed through the courts.

Some abuses do require “bloody revolution.”[/quote]

Im going to be late for work so I can’t address your question fully. I’ll try at a later date, although it is tough to answer with out specific circumstances to cite. Nephorm answered the question pretty well.

I’ll leave you with this quote from Charles Webb as it should lead to some thinking about what looks like police abuse but is actually the price of safety in our society:

�??There is no �??nice�?? way to arrest a potentially dangerous, combative suspect. The police are our bodyguards, our hired fists, batons and guns. We pay them to do the dirty work of protecting us, the work we�??re too afraid, too unskilled or too civilized to do ourselves. We expect them to keep the bad guys out of our businesses, cars and houses, out of our faces. We want them to �??take care of the problem.�?? We just don�??t want to see how it�??s done.�??

Of course, there is also the famous case of Mike Nifong – the facts are starting to become more clear, and this case is sickening:

http://volokh.com/posts/chain_1190036571.shtml

[quote]JD430 wrote:
Im going to be late for work so I can’t address your question fully. I’ll try at a later date, although it is tough to answer with out specific circumstances to cite. Nephorm answered the question pretty well.

I’ll leave you with this quote from Charles Webb as it should lead to some thinking about what looks like police abuse but is actually the price of safety in our society:

�??There is no �??nice�?? way to arrest a potentially dangerous, combative suspect. The police are our bodyguards, our hired fists, batons and guns. We pay them to do the dirty work of protecting us, the work we�??re too afraid, too unskilled or too civilized to do ourselves. We expect them to keep the bad guys out of our businesses, cars and houses, out of our faces. We want them to �??take care of the problem.�?? We just don�??t want to see how it�??s done.�??
[/quote]

Problems.

  1. I don’t think Police are body guards. (To me)They are more like a big Revenge Contracting Company with a monopoly on vengence.

They call competition Vigilantes for the most part and offer a standard line of services/products.

  1. I would love to see how they do it. If only to dispell the suspicion of Abuse/Corruption/Incompetence.

[quote]Natasel wrote:

Problems.

  1. I don’t think Police are body guards. (To me)They are more like a big Revenge Contracting Company with a monopoly on vengence.

They call competition Vigilantes for the most part and offer a standard line of services/products.

  1. I would love to see how they do it. If only to dispell the suspicion of Abuse/Corruption/Incompetence.[/quote]

Hmmmm. I’ll try and address those two statements first.

1.)Im not going to quibble over the term “bodyguard”, but I find it a fairly apt description of the police function. Now “Revenge Contracting Company with a monopoly on vengeance”? What a mouthful that is. I tried to examine some of your earlier posts to see where you come from philosophically and I couldn’t come up with anything.

Do you want a return to tribal or clan justice? Or mob rule? Besides, to characterize the role of the police in such a way is such a gross simplification(and perversion), I wouldn’t even know where to start refuting it. I could write a book doing so.

2.When Webb says that society doesn’t want to see “how it is done”, he is not talking about the dispassionate observers that we are at this moment, sitting at our keyboards. This is a statement meant to be understood at a street level. Place yourself in the shoes of a scared store owner with a violent meth addict ripping his store apart, or a terrified homeowner who has an angry and violent ex-business partner beating on his door.

You would want those problems dealt with and this whole gentleman’s discussion about the abuse of police powers would not even be a consideration.

Now you asked before about what response should there be to the abuse of police powers. My problem in answering this question lies in the fact that the abuse of power is often defined by the wrong people. They lack the experience, training or knowledge to make an educated decision on this subject. This is why education is the most critical component of the whole police brutality discussion.

If you look at some of my other posts, I have tried to explain why the police may have acted a certain way in a given circumstance. Some people who misunderstood what was happening will be enlightened and change their minds. Of course, in any field, there are those who already have their minds made up, education and facts be damned.

Before going further, let me explain this from a legal point of view. You do not have the right to resist arrest. It doesn’t matter if the cop is banging your girlfriend and he makes up something to arrest you. No good will come of your resistance. The courts provide for a redress of your grievance.

The only time you would be legally justified in physically fighting an arrest is if the officer is placing your life(or someone else’s) in danger with a very serious level of force AND his actions are completely unjustified. This has been the argument of Mumia Abu Jamal for many years.

Having looked at that case, I find him to be a complete and total liar who is trying to cover his ass after behaving like a murderous thug, but that is my opinion. While I would never advise someone to submit to anyone trying to harm them unjustly, trust me when I tell you that you better have overwhelming evidence on your side.

You mention “Bloody Revolution”. I think that any such discussion at this point in our history is ridiculous and a reflection of how comfortable our lives are here. America is policed by the most effective and scrutinized government agents in world history. The fact that a wingnut justifiably getting tasered generates so much outrage is proof of this.

In China or most South American countries, he would have been beaten near death, if not simply taken out and shot in the head. Look at the lengths that officers here go to for a peaceful resolution. That said, law enforcement is an extension of governmental will.

If you believe that government “creep” is growing at too rapid a rate(and in fact, I do), then law enforcement is going to begin to bear some of the brunt of your displeasure.

I personally feel that if American government would return to its roots, much of the resentment of the police would evaporate.

Body Guard VS Police/Revenge Contractor.

A body guard is someone whose primary purpose it to PREVENT harm.

Police has the primary purpose of going after those who do harm, in theory, by following the dictates of Law.

Defense and Offense.

Bodyguards could go after those would do harm, but that makes them vigilantes/mercenaries to the police monopolies, who often crush those who infringe on their turf.

Obviously, the police CAN try to act as Body Guards, but realistically, it would be logistically impossible.

Not to mention sort of silly.

A bodyguard often has the luxury of having to protect only ONE client and has other body guards to help.

Police are usually tasked with having to deal with POPULATIONS.

Thus, the need for different strategies.


Tribal/Clan justice? Mob rule?

You mean like America Tribe/Clan Justice and Democratic rule?


Condensing what you said I come out with:

  1. Police good
  2. When police bad, you just don’t understand. Gotta be Educated to understand that police good!
  3. Don’t EVER go against Police unless Police is…

“placing your life(or someone else’s) in danger with a very serious level of force AND his actions are completely unjustified.”

Which can mean: wait until you, or someone else is about to be killed to do anything.

  1. The bad police officer was wrong, but you better be able to prove he was wrong.

  2. Things good! So Police good!

  3. China/South America police bad! America police good! Buy America police service providers today!


On how do handle Abuse of Police Powers, is there ANY other option instead of the courts?

At best, it sounds somewhat tedious, at worst…well, there’s going to be Lawyers, which is probably leaps and bounds worse than Police for all involved.