About to Start GreySkull LP

Bigger Stronger Leaner
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Hey guys I am about to start the Linear progression program by John Sheaffer with the fat loss plug template.

This basically has you doing:

WEEK 1

MONDAY
PRESS 2 X 5, 1 X 5+
SQUAT 2 X 5, 1 X 5+

WEDNESDAY
BENCH PRESS 2 X 5, 1 X 5+
DEADLIFT 1 X 5+

FRIDAY
PRESS 2 X 5, 1 X 5+
SQUAT 2 X 5, 1 X 5+

WEEK 2

MONDAY
BENCH PRESS 2 X 5, 1 X 5+
SQUAT 2 X 5, 1 X 5+

WEDNESDAY
PRESS 2 X 5, 1 X 5+
DEADLIFT 1 X 5+

FRIDAY
BENCH PRESS 2 X 5, 1 X 5+
SQUAT 2 X 5, 1 X 5+

Neck harness training is done starting with a weight you can do 4 sets of 25 reps with and never going over 100 lbs or going for low reps.

You can do any bodyweight movements you want every single day but you do sets you can do easily and do multiple sets throughout the day.

So if you can do 10 pressups you do sets of 5 3-5 times a day, same with chinups and dips.

Days in between are either sprints or low distance runs like 1 mile all out efforts or interval training.

1 day a week rest for recovery, not including any bodyweight stuff you wish to do.

So I have a few questions, I have read the book and browsed the forum but I am not sure what to do about the bodyweight exercises. I can’t do a pullup due to my weight and to put it bluntly, my fat.

I don’t wan’t to do the curls option as I am not really looking to do a bodybuilding routine and I want to get good at the bodyweight stuff, specifically chinups and dips.

An option given on the forum is close grip lat pulldowns but I am not a fan and never really felt like they carried over much to my chinups.

Would I be better just priorotising the main lifts and losing weight or would using some building up exercises like bench dips and fat man lateal pullups be a good idea?

When I was a not fatty I never had to build up to anything because I could knock out chinups for fun. So now that I am in a situation where I can not do simple things with my body I am not sure how to set the program up to advance in exercises.

Lastly one of the main reasons for choosing the program was the impressive upper back/trap/neck development people on the program seem to show. I have bad posture due to a weak upper back and I get a lot of neck pain from it. I also have some shoulder rpoblems and tightness which I saw alot of people on the forums say was helped by the program because og how is built up their shoulders and rear delts and fixed rounded shoulders.

This is a pixture from an 18 year old on the program, his neck and trap development is something I will be striving for. Apparently he has worked up to 1000 neck harness raises per session at just under 100 pounds and does tonnes of chins.

Also any people using Greyskull LP on here? I would like to hear how you have been doing on the program. the book got me motivated like i havent been in years.

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I’ve tried it out a bit, as has some other folks on here. A lot of power lifting sites recommend it over SS, but it’s still more of a basic/intermediate program.

I suspect the upper trap/neck development is because most beginner programs don’t use any trap or neck work, so the neck harness would obviously lead to development. I suspect most of these folks are probably using the linebacker template.

It doesn’t really matter if you’re “not a fan” of a particular exercise. So, I’d do the v-grip pulldowns. They’re neutral, so easy on the shoulders, and allows you to go heavier… just make sure you’re using your back and not your arms.

If you’re aim is fatloss, you’ll have to make sure your nutrition is proper.

What are your current stats?

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I wrote this the other day:

[quote]Personally, I’ve made some modifications. I’d recommend running it as written for awhile before modifying it. You know, like every other program.

What I personally do:

M Bench 5,5,5+; EZ Bar Curls 2x8-12; Squat 5,5,5+
W Limited ROM BTN Press 5,5,5+; Weighted Chins 2x6-8; Touch-n-go Mid-shin Mat Pulls w/Chains 5+
F Bench 5,5,5+; EZ Bar Curls 2x8-12; Squat 5,5,5+

Chinup ladders every day or so… 1 rep, count to 4, 2 reps, count to 8, 3 reps, count to 12… up to however many, then restart at 1. I rest ~4 seconds per rep. Just try to either increase the “height” of the ladder, or the numbers of ladders. Mostly as a means to get in a lot of chinup volume in a short period of time.

I’m only pressing once a week because that’s about all my shoulders can handle, and it’s a standing BTN press to no lower than my ears, and sometimes no lower than the top of my head. Regular pressing causes issues with MY shoulders (is that enough emphasis?) and this is what works for me. I wouldn’t recommend this unless you have specific reason to.

The mat pulls w/chains really do two things for me.

One: my goal is development of strength and size, not necessarily getting better at the competition deadlift, so I’m testing T3hPwnisher’s suggestion that TnG mat pulls are better for that than conventional deadlifts. The idea being primarily that greater time under tension in a stronger part of the ROM leads to more growth. Since I’m stronger at the lockout, the chains help make things harder so that I can get more stimulation out of the same ROM.

Two: psychological. For whatever reason, I feel like I need to do something “complicated/advanced/whatever”, and this fills that void without me compromising the ideals of the basic program.[/quote]

I don’t do the neck harness work.

If you want trap development, I’d consider snatch grip high pulls, and doing them before your deadlifts on the wednesday session (e.g., just like the cleans before deadlifts in the greyskull forum discussions). See here: High-Pull for the Power Look

And if you do decide to do them and want to do a form check on the high pulls, I’d probably place it in the Christian Thibaudeau subforum. He and other people in there have been pretty good about reviewing videos.

As far as chinups and pushups in your case, I can’t really offer much. Personally I found supinated close grip lat pulls to carry over (hands facing you, i.e., just a chinup with a straight bar pulldown).

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Also, and this is important when reviewing what I just said… I’m pretty new to the program myself. Only about 6 weeks in.

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[quote]LoRez wrote:
I wrote this the other day:

[quote]Personally, I’ve made some modifications. I’d recommend running it as written for awhile before modifying it. You know, like every other program.

What I personally do:

M Bench 5,5,5+; EZ Bar Curls 2x8-12; Squat 5,5,5+
W Limited ROM BTN Press 5,5,5+; Weighted Chins 2x6-8; Touch-n-go Mid-shin Mat Pulls w/Chains 5+
F Bench 5,5,5+; EZ Bar Curls 2x8-12; Squat 5,5,5+

Chinup ladders every day or so… 1 rep, count to 4, 2 reps, count to 8, 3 reps, count to 12… up to however many, then restart at 1. I rest ~4 seconds per rep. Just try to either increase the “height” of the ladder, or the numbers of ladders. Mostly as a means to get in a lot of chinup volume in a short period of time.

I’m only pressing once a week because that’s about all my shoulders can handle, and it’s a standing BTN press to no lower than my ears, and sometimes no lower than the top of my head. Regular pressing causes issues with MY shoulders (is that enough emphasis?) and this is what works for me. I wouldn’t recommend this unless you have specific reason to.

The mat pulls w/chains really do two things for me.

One: my goal is development of strength and size, not necessarily getting better at the competition deadlift, so I’m testing T3hPwnisher’s suggestion that TnG mat pulls are better for that than conventional deadlifts. The idea being primarily that greater time under tension in a stronger part of the ROM leads to more growth. Since I’m stronger at the lockout, the chains help make things harder so that I can get more stimulation out of the same ROM.

Two: psychological. For whatever reason, I feel like I need to do something “complicated/advanced/whatever”, and this fills that void without me compromising the ideals of the basic program.[/quote]

I don’t do the neck harness work.

If you want trap development, I’d consider snatch grip high pulls, and doing them before your deadlifts on the wednesday session (e.g., just like the cleans before deadlifts in the greyskull forum discussions). See here: High-Pull for the Power Look

And if you do decide to do them and want to do a form check on the high pulls, I’d probably place it in the Christian Thibaudeau subforum. He and other people in there have been pretty good about reviewing videos.

As far as chinups and pushups in your case, I can’t really offer much. Personally I found supinated close grip lat pulls to carry over (hands facing you, i.e., just a chinup with a straight bar pulldown).[/quote]

My gym had just bought a hex bar so I will be doing my deadlifts and any direct trap work with that. I have a neck harness from when I used to do some BJJ and wanted to prevent neck injuries that alot of guys were suffering. I might just try doing them as part of the program.

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I might do this to build up to real bodweight stuff like dips and chinups:

Press
Squat
pressups

bench
trap bar deadlift
parallel pullups

press
squat
pushups

???

bench
squat
parallel pullups

press
trap bar deadlifts
pressups

bench
squat
parallel pullups

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Why trap bar deadlifts?

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the dude in the picture looks like absolute dog shit, why would anyone want to look like that? You said you have imbalances from a weak back. You think the picture you posted is a balanced physique? I swear, there are far too many people on this planet I’ll never understand.

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[quote]flipcollar wrote:
the dude in the picture looks like absolute dog shit, why would anyone want to look like that? You said you have imbalances from a weak back. You think the picture you posted is a balanced physique? I swear, there are far too many people on this planet I’ll never understand.[/quote]

That kid was like 18 and weighed 300 plus pounds. Of course he does not look how I will be hoping to look exactly. However the dude is strong as fuck and looks like a big solid dude with 300 pounds on him.

He can do tonnes of pullups at that bodyweight, i wouldn’t call that a weak back. And My goal is to be 170-200 lbs, I never want to get to 300 pounds. It will jepordize too many inches on my thang.

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[quote]LoRez wrote:
Why trap bar deadlifts?[/quote]

I tried it when the gym got it and I really liked using it, no lower back pain. Plus no one ever touches the thing so I don’t have to worry about getting a barbell when the gym is packed.

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[quote]GreySkull wrote:
I never want to get to 300 pounds. It will jepordize too many inches on my thang.[/quote]

I’m done here.

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I like the neck harness work personally but to each his own. Don’t use trap bar deads in replace of the deadlifts in this program. The trap bar dead is a totally different movement than the deadlift and doesn’t fill the same gap a conventional deadlift does in a linear LP. Also with regards to dips, if you cant do a set of 50 pushups, you need to be using the frequency model for pushups instead. Lastly, the Harry Selkow plan really fits nicely with the Greyskull frequency chin stuff.

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[quote]GreySkull wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:
Why trap bar deadlifts?[/quote]

I tried it when the gym got it and I really liked using it, no lower back pain. Plus no one ever touches the thing so I don’t have to worry about getting a barbell when the gym is packed.[/quote]

Though those are reasons to do something, the trap bar lift and the deadlift are not alike, and do not have the same benefits/effects. It would be akin to switching the deadlift out with watching TV. You may enjoy the latter more, but the former has the intended training effect as was originally prescribed in the program.

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[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:

[quote]GreySkull wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:
Why trap bar deadlifts?[/quote]

I tried it when the gym got it and I really liked using it, no lower back pain. Plus no one ever touches the thing so I don’t have to worry about getting a barbell when the gym is packed.[/quote]

Though those are reasons to do something, the trap bar lift and the deadlift are not alike, and do not have the same benefits/effects. It would be akin to switching the deadlift out with watching TV. You may enjoy the latter more, but the former has the intended training effect as was originally prescribed in the program.[/quote]

Can I ask what i the difference? I feel both in my hamstrings, glutes and hips.

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[quote]GreySkull wrote:

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:

[quote]GreySkull wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:
Why trap bar deadlifts?[/quote]

I tried it when the gym got it and I really liked using it, no lower back pain. Plus no one ever touches the thing so I don’t have to worry about getting a barbell when the gym is packed.[/quote]

Though those are reasons to do something, the trap bar lift and the deadlift are not alike, and do not have the same benefits/effects. It would be akin to switching the deadlift out with watching TV. You may enjoy the latter more, but the former has the intended training effect as was originally prescribed in the program.[/quote]

Can I ask what i the difference? I feel both in my hamstrings, glutes and hips.
[/quote]

the main difference is the bar path/center of gravity. the bar, and thus the center of gravity, of the standard deadlift is in front of you throughout the motion. The center of gravity of the trap bar is not. Video yourself doing each movement. You’ll see how different they are. If the movement is different, the training effect is different. You wouldn’t have a preference between the two versions if they were the same, right? The fact that one gives you lower back pain and one doesn’t should have been an indicator that they are significantly different.

EDIT: as a side note, you probably feel lunges in your glutes, hips, and hamstrings, right? You would never think to ask about the differences between lunges and deadlifts.

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Nevermind guys got my answer from the man himself. Thanks for the replies guys.

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[quote]flipcollar wrote:

the main difference is the bar path/center of gravity. the bar, and thus the center of gravity, of the standard deadlift is in front of you throughout the motion. The center of gravity of the trap bar is not. Video yourself doing each movement. You’ll see how different they are. If the movement is different, the training effect is different. You wouldn’t have a preference between the two versions if they were the same, right? The fact that one gives you lower back pain and one doesn’t should have been an indicator that they are significantly different.

EDIT: as a side note, you probably feel lunges in your glutes, hips, and hamstrings, right? You would never think to ask about the differences between lunges and deadlifts.[/quote]

This sums it up very well. The sheer fact that the deadlift stresses the back more than the trap bar speaks volumes for the differences. I find the deadlift to be far more of a hip hinge as well, whereas the trap bar lift is more of a push.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m pretty vocally anti-deadlift as far as a movement goes for non-powerlifter trainees (and even then, I think it’s worth only training it in a limited capacity), but as far as comparing those two movements in particular goes, I don’t think they do.

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Johnny seems pretty flexible on programming, so I’m not surprised at his answer… and it makes sense to listen to the program designer.

However, dude, it’s poor etiquette to ask on multiple forums. You’re basically wasting people’s time, as you’re just going to listen to whoever tells you what you want to hear.

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[quote]1 Man Island wrote:
Johnny seems pretty flexible on programming, so I’m not surprised at his answer… and it makes sense to listen to the program designer.

However, dude, it’s poor etiquette to ask on multiple forums. You’re basically wasting people’s time, as you’re just going to listen to whoever tells you what you want to hear.[/quote]

I did not ask anything on that forum, that was a reply from Johnny to another dude who asked the same question a few years ago, I just trawled through the archive to see if the man who created the program thought it was ok to substitute a conventional deadlift with a trap bar deadlift, which he did.

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OK, my fault… I think you have what information you need to reach your goals.