T Nation

About Those WMD's


#1

It has alway's been my position that WMD's were likely shipped out of Iraq to Syria prior to the invasion. More and more, signs are starting to point in this direction.


http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06036/649858.stm

[b]Jack Kelly: A Syrian sidestep?

About those Iraqi WMDs: More signs are pointing to a neighborly transfer[/b]
Sunday, February 05, 2006

Last week a man who had been deputy chief of Saddam Hussein's air force claimed Iraq moved weapons of mass destruction into Syria before the war began.

Special Republican Guard brigades loaded yellow barrels with the skull and crossbones sign on each barrel onto two airliners from which the seats had been removed, Georges Sada said. There were 56 flights in all.

"Saddam realized this time the Americans are coming," Mr. Sada told The New York Sun, one of a handful of news organizations which took note of what he had to say.

There are grounds for skepticism. Mr. Sada was deputy chief of the Iraqi air force during the first Gulf War, not the more recent one, and his account of the movement of WMD to Syria is secondhand.

Mr. Sada said he was told of the WMD transfer by the pilots of the two airliners, who approached him after Saddam was captured.

But Mr. Sada's is only the most recent of a series of accounts by people in a position to speak with authority who say (some of) Saddam's chemical and biological weapons wound up in Syria.

*Last month Moshe Yaalon, who was Israel's top general at the time, said Iraq transported WMD to Syria six weeks before Operation Iraqi Freedom began.

*Last March, John A. Shaw, a former U.S. deputy undersecretary of defense for international technology security, said Russian Spetsnaz units moved WMD to Syria and Lebanon's Bekaa Valley.

"While in Iraq I received information from several sources naming the exact Russian units, what they took and where they took both WMD materials and conventional explosives," Mr. Shaw told NewsMax reporter Charles Smith.

*Retired Marine Lt. Gen. Michael DeLong was deputy commander of Central Command during Operation Iraqi Freedom. In September 2004, he told WABC radio that "I do know for a fact that some of those weapons went into Syria, Lebanon and Iran."

*In January 2004, David Kay, the first head of the Iraq Survey Group which conducted the search for Saddam's WMD, told a British newspaper there was evidence unspecified materials had been moved to Syria from Iraq shortly before the war.

"We know from some of the interrogations of former Iraqi officials that a lot of material went to Syria before the war, including some components of Saddam's WMD program," Mr. Kay told the Sunday Telegraph.

*Also that month, Nizar Nayuf, a Syrian journalist who defected to an undisclosed European country, told a Dutch newspaper he knew of three sites where Iraq's WMD was being kept. They were the town of al Baida near the city of Hama in northern Syria; the Syrian air force base near the village of Tal Snan, and the city of Sjinsar on the border with Lebanon.

*In an addendum to his final report last April, Charles Duelfer, who succeeded David Kay as head of the Iraq Survey Group, said he couldn't rule out a transfer of WMD from Iraq to Syria.

"There was evidence of a discussion of possible WMD collaboration initiated by a Syrian security officer, and ISG received information about movement of material out of Iraq, including the possibility that WMD was involved. In the judgment of the working group, these reports were sufficiently credible to merit further investigation," Mr. Duelfer said.

*In a briefing for reporters in October 2003, retired Air Force Lt. Gen. James Clapper Jr., who was head of the National Geospatial Intelligence Agency when the Iraq war began, said satellite imagery showed a heavy flow of traffic from Iraq into Syria just before the American invasion.

"I think the people below Saddam Hussein and his sons' level saw what was coming and decided the best thing to do was to destroy and disperse," Lt. Gen. Clapper said.

You haven't heard much about these reports, because they contradict the meme that Saddam either had no WMD, or destroyed it well before the Iraq war began.

The captured files of the Iraqi intelligence service, still mostly untranslated, could shed light on what did happen to Saddam's WMD.

John Loftus, a former Justice Department prosecutor, said a civilian contractor who has been among those examining the Mukhabarat files has found audiotapes of meetings in Saddam's office where WMD was discussed. The contractor, a former military intelligence analyst, will make the tapes public Feb. 17 at a conference sponsored by Intelligence Summit, a private group that Mr. Loftus heads.

Mr. Loftus wouldn't disclose the identity of the contractor in advance of the conference, but said his tapes have been verified by the National Security Agency. "This isn't a smoking gun. It's a smoking cannon," he said.

Those who have bet their political futures that Saddam had no WMD may be starting to sweat.


#2

We absolutely knew they had WMD. They did not have much and the Iraqis were veterans at hiding the shit.


#3

He flew his air force to Iran rather than see it destroyed in the first gulf war.

The same Iran he was at war with a few years earlier.


#4

Nah, Bush lied, made it all up because Americans are all terrorists. We want their oil and their extremely hot women, because we all drive gas-guzzlers and and are sex maniacs.

If you said the above to Howard Dean, can't you just see his head nodding in agreement?


#5

WMD or war crimes or a world base for terrorists,the list is endless.He had a big mouth and no balls!They found him in a hole and then he said he wanted to negotiate!If it wasn't so pathetic it might be funny.Syria and Iran are both involved too.Turn a blind eye to it and they will blind your other eye!


#6

I'm not going to believe anything until I hear an official statement from the White House. Then, I'll wait for the counter analysis...

I mean really, they more than anybody would love to have the puzzle solved and be able to take credit for it.


#7

Check your facts - Iranian women are much hotter than Iraqis. If this was the motivation, we would have gone into Iran.
Seriously, hasn't the administration conceded that they were wrong about the WMDs?


#8

Isn't Catherine Bell 1/2 Iranian?


#9

Agreed.

Of course, I think the entire WMD argument is invalid. If Saddam had them, he would not have used them. Messing around with us like that is like shooting a .22 at a fright train- he knew he would be completely destroyed. Not only that, but I'm sure he knew that if he was linked to any attack, he would be destroyed. Hell, he wasn't even linked to 9/11 and he was attacked.

I don't mean to sound at all like I am supporting him. But he is smarter than we think he is, and he knew how to hold power. Attacking the strongest country in the world is not a way to keep power.


#10

Yeah let's give saddamm the benefit of the doubt, he obviously has a good head on his shoulders so he was likely to do the right thing. We should have done that instead of this terrible war against humanity. The Iraqi people are now able to vote. That's terrible. They still want us there for protection from terror......oh but now we should back out instead because of what the world thinks of us. We need to pour more money into our fucked up SS instead of financing a war for democracy and a having a staging point for the global war on terror.


#11

Rockscar,
I dig that bro!We need to focus at times on the positive things being done over there.


#12

Wait, you mean to tell me we invaded Iraq with the full force of the US military, to prevent Saddam from using WMDs, and then we didn't find any?

WTF ??????????????????????? OOPS ?????????

But seriously... Just because one Iraqi exile says Saddam sent the WMDs to Syria, I'm supposed to believe that? How frigging gullible do you have to be, to believe THAT guy? He hadn't been inside Iraq for 15 years, before the war started, so how the hell would he know.

Isn't this exactly the kind of "bad intelligence" on Iraqi WMDs that Bush is blaming the CIA for? Getting one fishy-sounding guy to make wild claims about WMD is almost exactly how we got into the war in the first place. Now we're supposed to fall for it again?

Bush is about to ask Congress for another 120 BILLION DOLLARS of US taxpayer money, for the next year's worth of military spending, just on Iraq and Afghanistan. We spend 1.5 billion tax dollars PER WEEK in Iraq. Think about that! You really want to tell me, that since there was no WMD in Iraq and that Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice, Tenet and Powell were all dead wrong about WMDs, that you think it's a good idea to spend 1.5 billion dollars A WEEK just to make sure that Iraqis can vote? Because in the last election the Iraqis voted for a Islamic system of government (the Iraqi constitution they voted for includes Sharia law, which is fundamentalist Islam).

Couldn't we be using those hundreds of billions of tax dollars better we're spending by destrying and then rebuilding Iraq, by spending at home in the USA? Do you guys really care so deeply about a democracy in Iraq? Because I bet most Americans couldn't find Iraq on a map if their lives depended on it.


#13

That pretty much sums up how I feel about it.


#14

I've got a nice bridge for sale in Sydney, it spans the harbour and people will pay you to use it. Interested?

Please explain the common sense behind the strategy of getting rid of your weapons when invaded.

Please explain how, when the full might of all modern satellite surveilance was turned on Iraq, they managed to get those weapons out.

I see they've sent them to Syria, not Iran - I guess Syria must be next on the list then. It was always a toss up between those two. I guess it would be hard to convince the world that Iran would let Iraq hide their weapons there? Syria however wouldn't hesitate to help their old pal Saddam.

I knew they had no WMD before they were invaded. Everyone knew, including those who said repeatedly that they DID have WMD.

What surprised me was that they also had NO ARMY. Now THAT was a big surprise. I thought there would be someone there. I don't know how that Saddam guy managed to keep control in that crazy country, nowadays nobody can keep it under control. Even with an army and billions of dollars.

Doesn't USA want to sort out Iraq before moving on to Syria?


#15

This board is filled with Bush appologists.

He F'ed up just like the Democrats did in Vietnam.

Nothing like losing 55K troops to defend us from a doomed to fail form of government/economy (hint: red star).

Whoops, there goes another rubber tree plant!


#16

While I'm not saying this is slam dunk material, it's worth looking into don't you think?

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=10547

Syria Storing Iraq's WMDs
By Bill Gertz
Washington Times | October 29, 2003

[i]Iraqi military officers destroyed or hid chemical, biological and nuclear weapons goods in the weeks before the war, the nation's top satellite spy director said yesterday.

Retired Air Force Lt. Gen. James Clapper, head of the National Imagery and Mapping Agency, said vehicle traffic photographed by U.S. spy satellites indicated that material and documents related to the arms programs were shipped to Syria.

Other goods probably were sent throughout Iraq in small quantities and documents probably were stashed in the homes of weapons scientists, Gen. Clapper told defense reporters at a breakfast.

Gen. Clapper said he is not surprised that U.S. and allied forces have not found weapons of mass destruction hidden in Iraq because "it's a big place."

"Those below the senior leadership saw what was coming, and I think they went to extraordinary lengths to dispose of the evidence," he said.

Congress is investigating whether U.S. intelligence agencies overstated information indicating that Iraq had hidden its chemical, biological and nuclear weapons. The Bush administration has defended the intelligence agencies on prewar reports that the weapons were there.

Iraqi government officials "below the Saddam Hussein and the sons level saw what was coming and decided the best thing to do was to dispose, destroy and disperse," he said.

Gen. Clapper said he felt strongly that the satellite imagery of Iraq's weapons facilities before the war was "accurate and balanced."

"Based on what we saw prior to the onset of hostilities, we certainly felt there were indications of [weapons of mass destruction] activity," said the retired general and former director of the Defense Intelligence Agency.

Gen. Clapper said the judgment was based on analysis of spy satellite photographs and was not proof of "what was going on inside of buildings."

He also said the Iraqi government carried out operations after the fall of Baghdad in April to cover up the hidden weapons programs. The chaos following might have included both looting and "organized dispersal made to look like looting," he said.

"So by the time that we got to a lot of these facilities, that we had previously identified as suspect facilities, there wasn't that much there to look at," he said.

Valuable documents on Iraq's weapons were destroyed or lost in the chaos, which included burning of major government ministries.

Saddam began dispersing his weapons and sending elements of his chemical, biological and nuclear programs out of the country in the weeks before the war, he said.

The dispersal included moving both weapons and equipment as well as documents. The activity began before the United Nations began arms inspections last fall.

"What we saw with the avoidance of inspections, there was clearly an effort to disperse, bury, conceal certain equipment prior to inspections," Gen. Clapper said.

As for shipping weapons out of Iraq, he said, there is "no question" that people and material were taken to Syria. He said he did not know whether material also was moved to Iran.

Convoys of vehicles, mostly commercial trucks, were spotted going into Syria from Iraq shortly before the start of the war March 19 and during the conflict, he said.[/i]

I may be mistaken, but I don't believe that Saddam was all that cozy with Syria. Not that it matters much, he didn't care for Iran either and it didn't stop him from flying his airforce there prior to GW1. He has definitely has shown that he was willing to work with his Arab enemies instead of letting the west have any kind of upper hand.

I'm trying to follow your logic here. Everybody knew he didn't have WMD's, including the ones who did think he had WMD's?

Senator Kerry, is that you? :wink:

I don't think we're in a position right now to invade anyone else. I'm sure we're all in agreement on that. But what if this shit is true? What if it was proven that Syria accepted WMD's?

Syria would be in an awkward position for sure huh.

Like I said, don't read into this as me believing it's a slam dunk. But there's too signs pointing in this direction to ignore don't you think? Hell, even the duelfer report say's that this is a possibility.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=36463

OPERATION IRAQI FREEDOM
Report: Syria hiding Iraqi WMD
Sources say relative of President Assad smuggled arms to 3 places

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1152284/posts

UN inspectors: Saddam shipped out WMD before war and after
World Tribune ^ | Friday June 11, 2004
Posted on 06/12/2004 2:08:29 AM PDT by Racer1

SPECIAL TO WORLD TRIBUNE.COM Friday, June 11, 2004 The United Nations has determined that Saddam Hussein shipped weapons of mass destruction components as well as medium-range ballistic missiles before, during and after the U.S.-led war against Iraq in 2003.

The UN Monitoring, Verification and Inspection Commission briefed the Security Council on new findings that could help trace the whereabouts of Saddam's missile and WMD program.


#17

As well as leftist cheerleaders and Bush haters.


#18

Saddam did this exact thing with his airforce during the first gulf war.

The stunning lack of knowledge about recent history from many of the anti war types never ceases to amaze me.


#19

No, the stunning lack of knowledge of most Americans amazes me. The weird thing is, you don't even know you are deliberately misinformed.

It has amazed me for a long time how people could possibly be so ignorant and yet, here is the proof.

THERE ARE NO WEAPONS. THERE NEVER WERE ANY. YOU HAVE BEEN LIED TO. WAKE UP TO YOURSELVES.

Or, if you prefer, continue doing what you are doing, it's going great. USA has shrinking debt, healthcare for all, a competitive economy, a currency that doesn't need to be propped up by the rest of the world, a homeland security system that plans ahead and responds immediately to real, actual threats such as natural disasters, and earns respect and admiration from countries all around the world.

Yes, EVERYONE knew there were no WMD - nobody thought they were there (except the gullible public members who bought into it). The politicians who were telling you they thought they were there, they were "lying" - that means, telling you one thing when they knew it was not the case. Did you never see the footage of Conda telling everyone that Saddam had no weapons and was not a threat? Until it became the agenda? What, you never saw the footage of her saying one thing, then saw the other footage of her months later saying the exact opposite?

It never occurred to you that, if he did actually have them, that the fact that he didn't use them on your soldiers but instead hid them, means that HE WAS NOT A THREAT ALL ALONG?????

Out of interest did any of you see that survey asking Americans simple questions about established facts of recent news that showed they were completely wrong 80% of the time? No? not shown on your media? Do you ever get those shows showing how your media in the US is completely altered to brainwash the people? The different versions CNN uses for inside the US and outside? No?

There are so many of you who get so angry when people tell you this stuff, and call names like "leftist" etc.. but if you really think that then you simply have not got a clue.

And now you're still looking for the WMDs ... they must be in a different country. He must have moved them. Saddam, master of deception. With full run of the country and years to search, and a desperate need to find ANYTHING, your government found not a single thing. Not even a hint of evidence. And if they had, you bet it would have been all over the news again and again "we found WMDs - we are vindicated". But alas, no, nothing. Not even an army, really.

Also, you do realise the chemical weapons Saddam used on the Kurds were supplied to Saddam by the USA? ??? you do know that, right? Or is that just one more gem of knowledge you've had screened out of your media?

I am extremely sorry if I offended anyone by this post I know this is not the case for all Americans. I also realise most people don't want to realise that they have been mislead, and that a lot of Americans have an extremely high, patriotic loyalty to their president or political party, and don't want to think they are lying or anything possibly wrong.

Wake up America, you've got far bigger things to worry about than some fictional WMDs that were made up to take your mind off the real issues that are not being addressed in your country.

Again, I apologise. See, I am not angry at Americans, because Americans are usually really nice people and seem to have a good heart. It's just that I know you are being mislead and it is damned frustrating to see it happen. My specialty is finance and I see your country teetering on destruction, and you're worried about some bloody made up stories about WMDs.

You're a rich country, but the money isn't in your hands, it is in the hands of the 5% rich, who couldn't give a damn, and will happily move that money to other investments in other countries that are booming. You won't even see it happen but you'll wake up with nothing - no services, no growth, no retirement funds.

If they talk you into another war, if the WMD line works on you again, or some other reason, then God help the lot of you.


#20

Which is it?

Were there no weapons or were they supplied by the US?

You cannot even remember what you wrote earlier in the same post.

It is no wonder you have no understanding of history.