T Nation

About Soy

I heard soy has a lot of protein but everyone on this site recommends that you avoid it and I’d like to know why. The reason I’m asking is because my parents are vegetarian and don’t let me eat meat so it’s hard finding protein rich foods.

[quote]semper_fi wrote:
I heard soy has a lot of protein but everyone on this site recommends that you avoid it and I’d like to know why. The reason I’m asking is because my parents are vegetarian and don’t let me eat meat so it’s hard finding protein rich foods. [/quote]

They don’t let you eat meat? Man, stuff like this makes me want to punch people.
Try milk proteins such as Whey or Casein, they’re better quality than Soy is.

To many and to much to explain SO I used the magical “SEARCH FUNCTION!!!”

here there is more where that came from just punch in “soy”

http://www.T-Nation.com/findArticle.do?article=185soy2

http://www.T-Nation.com/findArticle.do?article=body_143soy

http://www.T-Nation.com/findArticle.do?article=body_87prote

Hope that helps,
Phill

Just say no to soy. Eat dairy and eggs instead, also beans and nuts.

next time you’re at a restaurant, man up and order a steak!

A ton of info here…

http://www.google.com/custom?domains=Mercola.com&q=Soy&sa=Search&client=pub-5036891189517018&forid=1&ie=ISO-8859-1&oe=ISO-8859-1&safe=active&hl=en&sitesearch=Mercola.com&cof=GALT%3A%23008000%3BGL%3A1%3BDIV%3A%23336699%3BVLC%3A663399%3BAH%3Acenter%3BBGC%3AFFFFFF%3BLBGC%3AFFFFFF%3BALC%3A0000FF%3BLC%3A0000FF%3BT%3A000000%3BGFNT%3A0000FF%3BGIMP%3A0000FF%3BLH%3A112%3BLW%3A778%3BL%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.mercola.com%2Fimages%2Fmercolabannersearch.gif%3BS%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.mercola.com%3BFORID%3A1%3B

Soy is an “antinutrient”.

From that search, you can zone in on an article at Mercola’s site.

Good luck convincing your parents. The general population is brainwashed on soy.

In health,

Jack

It’s fine in small amounts. No one has ever grown bitch-tits from soy products.

You know, I read this article (one of the three links up there by Phill): http://www.T-Nation.com/findArticle.do?article=body_87prote

About the amount of soy products in Schools… Could it have the disturbing side effect of promoting EMO?

It really irritates me when people say that “my parents do this so I have to do this…”. Fuck man grow some balls and tell your parents it’s your right to choose your own lifestyle and that what works for them doesn’t necessarily work for you. If they don’t respect you enough to let you make your own decisions, then what kind of parents are they? This could apply to anything from religion to clothing to hair color to piercings to tatoos, etc. Unless you’re 10 years old, grow same damn balls!!

To answer you first question, Soy sucks. Easy as that. Go for milk proteins, as others have said, or just use a protein powder that is a protein mixture. I’ve never heard a vegetarian complain about protein powders.

[quote]eengrms76 wrote:
It really irritates me when people say that “my parents do this so I have to do this…”. Fuck man grow some balls and tell your parents it’s your right to choose your own lifestyle and that what works for them doesn’t necessarily work for you. If they don’t respect you enough to let you make your own decisions, then what kind of parents are they? This could apply to anything from religion to clothing to hair color to piercings to tatoos, etc. Unless you’re 10 years old, grow same damn balls!!

To answer you first question, Soy sucks. Easy as that. Go for milk proteins, as others have said, or just use a protein powder that is a protein mixture. I’ve never heard a vegetarian complain about protein powders.[/quote]

While I agree that soy sucks, you are completely out of line in disrespecting your parents like that. Until you get your ass out of the house and start supporting yourself, you better show some damn respect. If you think you CAN support yourself, then quit moochin’ off of your parents.

If I thought my son felt that way, I’d woop his ass in the gym until he collapsed, then I’d bare ass spank him in front of his friends to show him some humiliation (makes you humble). However, I promise you that my son has earned his freedom through respect and hard work. You think you got balls? If I was your father, I’d DARE you to stand up to me and talk that trash. Have some gawdamn respect, punk. You ask, “What kind of parents are they?” I’ll tell you. The kind who care. Even though they may have a different lifestyle than what I agree with, they have the right to care for and guide their son in the direction that they feel is best.

I don’t know why I waste my time, because I don’t think you’ll have the depth to be able to understand what it is to employ this kind of respect.

http://www.theomnivore.com/Soy_boy.html

the guy who runs this site just loves soy

way to jump to conclusions asshole

[quote]jackzepplin wrote:
While I agree that soy sucks, you are completely out of line in disrespecting your parents like that. Until you get your ass out of the house and start supporting yourself, you better show some damn respect. If you think you CAN support yourself, then quit moochin’ off of your parents.[/quote]

First of all I’m 29 years old and I have a Masters degree, so as for having the depth to understand- I think I can handle it…

Second I don’t live with my parents nor do I disrespect them. It’s not disrespect to tell them that a certain lifestyle they choose is not right for you. Now if this was something like drugs, smoking, drinking, killing people, etc., then yes you should listen to your parents. But something like this cannot and should not be forced on anyone if they do not want it.

Third- it was pretty stupid of you to jump to such an odd conclusion that I still lived with and mooched off of my parents. Do you always make such uneducated assumptions?

If you want to beat and harass your children into respecting you go right ahead. I promise you it’s not real respect they have for, but fear. In fact, as a result of your behavior they probably don’t like you very much and will most likely beat their children too. Way to go- Dad of the year!

My kids will be brought up with enough intelligence to make their own decisions employing actual facts and not whatever I feel like brainwashing them with or beating into them. You can guide your children all you want, but if they aren’t smart enough to make thier own decisions- what kind of adults will they make?

And yes, I must be a “punk”, what are you 60?

What a completely unqualified and erroneous statement. I don’t know why I wasted my time.

[quote]eengrms76 wrote:
way to jump to conclusions asshole
[/quote]

OH, NOW you try to write something even more intelligent. Well, I don’t buy it. You got pretty defensive, when I was really speaking in generalities. IF that applies to you, then I suppose it is what it is.

Thankfully, I’ve never had to spank my children. Way to jump to conclusions (what was your word? “Asshole”). They are intelligent enough and respectful enough, that they’ve never deserved it. However, if they showed the amount of disrespect that you’re encouraging, I’d have to say that I hold that right to enforce stronger discipline should it be necessary.

At any rate, you have been ZERO help to the person asking for advice, while others (including myself) offered specific information to reference while discussing this with his parents RESPECTFULLY.

All you have to say is, “Grow a pair!” or “Asshole”. Where did you get your degree exactly? Never mind, you’re a fine example that sometimes an education really is just a piece of paper.

Uh, duh, grow a pair… der…

[quote]jackzepplin wrote:
OH, NOW you try to write something even more intelligent. Well, I don’t buy it. You got pretty defensive, when I was really speaking in generalities. IF that applies to you, then I suppose it is what it is.[/quote]

Generalities? Really? Re-read the following statements from you and tell me if you think they are still generalities:

and

and

You come on here and attack me personally for making a statement about my opinion on the matter, calling me a punk and telling me that you’d beat me if I was your kid and talked to you like that. How am I not supposed to get defensive? It’s one thing for you to disagree with me and respectfully tell me so, it’s a completely different thing to attack me the way you did. If we were face to face I doubt you would say the same thing. Instead you hide behind your keyboard.

Encouraging disrespect? I believe the advice I gave him was rather respectful. I didn’t tell him to tell his parents to fuck off… Let’s have a read shall we?

Ok you’re right- that was sooo disrespectful…

I did include the following in my post…

At least it was an actual attempt at being helpful. You obviously missed that.

[quote]All you have to say is, “Grow a pair!” or “Asshole”. Where did you get your degree exactly? Never mind, you’re a fine example that sometimes an education really is just a piece of paper.

Uh, duh, grow a pair… der…[/quote]

“Grow a pair” just means have the courage to speak up. Was it a good choice of words, maybe not. But it still applies. It’s not intended to mean- “Tell your parents to fuck off”. If that’s what you read into it, well so be it.

If you also head over to the supplement section you’ll see a post from this same kid stating that it sucks to be a vegetarian against his will. Apparently he does need to “grow a pair”.

When you can find the level of tolerance necessary to disagree with someone’s opinion and have a respectful conversation without directly attacking them and their character, especially without the knowledge necessary to make an educated and informed assumption, then maybe your opinion will matter to me. Instead you attack, and then backtrack and say it was all generalities when confronted thinking I was just some punk kid. If you can’t handle a constructive discussion on the subject, then don’t bother with a response.

[quote]eengrms76 wrote:
Where exactly in your post was there anything helpful at all to the kid? Anything? Even one thing? I didn’t see anything. At least I included the following in mine…

At least it was an actual attempt at being helpful. All you said was that you agreed soy sucks. You never once encouraged the kid to respectfully talk with his parents. If anything, the kid inferred from your post that he should just do everything his parents say without question.[/quote]

Really? You need to go back through the earlier posts and see where I posted information for this person to look up.

As for the generalities, when posting on any forum, everything is “in general”, because there is no way we can every truly know a person or their situation. Do we need disclaimers?

I will admit that my writing tends to lend toward making it more personal to give weight to my words; however, I do keep in mind that my writings to anyone are open for anyone to interpret them the way they want/need.

I’ll never hide behind a keyboard. If you’re ever in the KC metro, I’ll gladly offer up my home gym to a T-Man during their stay (I’ve done it several times before), AND discuss any philosophical matter you’d like.

In health, and completely against soy,

~ Jack

[quote]jackzepplin wrote:
Really? You need to go back through the earlier posts and see where I posted information for this person to look up.

As for the generalities, when posting on any forum, everything is “in general”, because there is no way we can every truly know a person or their situation. Do we need disclaimers?

I will admit that my writing tends to lend toward making it more personal to give weight to my words; however, I do keep in mind that my writings to anyone are open for anyone to interpret them the way they want/need.

I’ll never hide behind a keyboard. If you’re ever in the KC metro, I’ll gladly offer up my home gym to a T-Man during their stay (I’ve done it several times before), AND discuss any philosophical matter you’d like.

In health, and completely against soy,

~ Jack[/quote]

Very constructive post- thank you.

I did edit my post after I looked back through and saw that you actually did offer the kid some advice, so I respectfully removed that section about you not helping. You must have read this before the edits went through though.

[quote]semper_fi wrote:
I heard soy has a lot of protein but everyone on this site recommends that you avoid it and I’d like to know why. The reason I’m asking is because my parents are vegetarian and don’t let me eat meat so it’s hard finding protein rich foods. [/quote]

Myth: Use of soy as a food dates back many thousands of years.

Truth: Soy was first used as a food during the late Chou dynasty (1134-246 BC), only after the Chinese learned to ferment soy beans to make foods like tempeh, natto and tamari.

Myth: Asians consume large amounts of soy foods.

Truth: Average consumption of soy foods in Japan and China is 10 grams (about 2 teaspoons) per day. Asians consume soy foods in small amounts as a condiment, and not as a replacement for animal foods.

Myth: Modern soy foods confer the same health benefits as traditionally fermented soy foods.

Truth: Most modern soy foods are not fermented to neutralize toxins in soybeans, and are processed in a way that denatures proteins and increases levels of carcinogens.

Myth: Soy foods provide complete protein.

Truth: Like all legumes, soy beans are deficient in sulfur-containing amino acids methionine and cystine. In addition, modern processing denatures fragile lysine.

Myth: Fermented soy foods can provide vitamin B12 in vegetarian diets.

Truth: The compound that resembles vitamin B12 in soy cannot be used by the human body; in fact, soy foods cause the body to require more B12

Myth: Soy formula is safe for infants.

Truth: Soy foods contain trypsin inhibitors that inhibit protein digestion and affect pancreatic function. In test animals, diets high in trypsin inhibitors led to stunted growth and pancreatic disorders. Soy foods increase the body’s requirement for vitamin D, needed for strong bones and normal growth. Phytic acid in soy foods results in reduced bioavailabilty of iron and zinc which are required for the health and development of the brain and nervous system. Soy also lacks cholesterol, likewise essential for the development of the brain and nervous system. Megadoses of phytoestrogens in soy formula have been implicated in the current trend toward increasingly premature sexual development in girls and delayed or retarded sexual development in boys.

Myth: Soy foods can prevent osteoporosis.

Truth: Soy foods can cause deficiencies in calcium and vitamin D, both needed for healthy bones. Calcium from bone broths and vitamin D from seafood, lard and organ meats prevent osteoporosis in Asian countries?not soy foods.

Myth: Modern soy foods protect against many types of cancer.

Truth: A British government report concluded that there is little evidence that soy foods protect against breast cancer or any other forms of cancer. In fact, soy foods may result in an increased risk of cancer.

Myth: Soy foods protect against heart disease.

Truth: In some people, consumption of soy foods will lower cholesterol, but there is no evidence that lowering cholesterol improves one’s risk of having heart disease.

Myth: Soy estrogens (isoflavones) are good for you.

Truth: Soy isoflavones are phyto-endocrine disrupters. At dietary levels, they can prevent ovulation and stimulate the growth of cancer cells. Eating as little as 30 grams (about 4 tablespoons) of soy per day can result in hypothyroidism with symptoms of lethargy, constipation, weight gain and fatigue.

Myth: Soy foods are safe and beneficial for women to use in their postmenopausal years.

Truth: Soy foods can stimulate the growth of estrogen-dependent tumors and cause thyroid problems. Low thyroid function is associated with difficulties in menopause.

Myth: Phytoestrogens in soy foods can enhance mental ability.

Truth: A recent study found that women with the highest levels of estrogen in their blood had the lowest levels of cognitive function; In Japanese Americans tofu consumption in mid-life is associated with the occurrence of Alzheimer’s disease in later life.

Myth: Soy isoflavones and soy protein isolate have GRAS (Generally Recognized as Safe) status.

Truth: Archer Daniels Midland (ADM) recently withdrew its application to the FDA for GRAS status for soy isoflavones following an outpouring of protest from the scientific community. The FDA never approved GRAS status for soy protein isolate because of concern regarding the presence of toxins and carcinogens in processed soy.

Myth: Soy foods are good for your sex life.

Truth: Numerous animal studies show that soy foods cause infertility in animals. Soy consumption enhances hair growth in middle-aged men, indicating lowered testosterone levels. Japanese housewives feed tofu to their husbands frequently when they want to reduce his virility.

Myth: Soy beans are good for the environment.

Truth: Most soy beans grown in the US are genetically engineered to allow farmers to use large amounts of herbicides.

Myth: Soy beans are good for developing nations.

Truth: In third world countries, soybeans replace traditional crops and transfer the value-added of processing from the local population to multinational corporations.

Now you don’t even have to click a link…