T Nation

About Anti E's

When I was in the army I never used them, yet I never had a problem. as far as I am aware (please correct me if I am wrong) the old-timers never used them.

i finished a test cycle (using test then not using test - it’s all I could get my hands on from my doc and with Australian medical benefits 2 months worth cost me $14.70 Australian dollars) and didn’t use any anti e’s.

Also did TC do an interview with a guy that never used em?

So why use them? my thinking is if you only use enough to get past your genetic limit then you wont need them. just asking trying to find rational.

if you find you recover well without antiE usage, then you know how you respond and whether you need it or not.

the advantages of using an antiE are reducing bloat and estrogen mediated shut down of the HPTA which is worse than AR or inhibin mediated shutdown. i believe Tim Patterson himself has stated that he feels use of antiE under 1g of test is unnecessary with execptions for those who are sensitive to E.

please rephrase your last question so we can give you a proper answer.

[quote]Simon Forsyth wrote:

So why use them? my thinking is if you only use enough to get past your genetic limit then you wont need them. just asking trying to find rational.[/quote]

With some searching and reading you would be able to answer this yourself. You should be doing that before messing with gear.

Elevated E can compete with free T (FT) at T receptors. This can dampen the expected effects of the T. The result can include loss of libido. The elevated E can also lead to breast tissue development for some.

If you do not understand these issues, you probably also do not understand PCT. We have seen a few guys do an cycle with no AI or PCT who end up afterwards with long term post-cycle HPTA suppression and killed libido.

I have a good friend that is a beast! He is certainly one of the biggest guys at Ballys and the biggest guy I know. He has NEVER used anti E’s or SERM’s. He has used gear for about the last 10-11 years (off and on), he uses the taper method. He tapers up the dose and tapers down the dose (pyramid) without ever having a problem.

However, that certainly does not equate to all people can do the same thing. I know I am susceptible to gyno on even small doses of test. So my body reacts differently as does everyones. YOU may not need PCT but do you want to do a cycle without having it to find out?

Sure, the old timers never included anti-e’s. And they also used pyramid dosing and once-a-week injections. They still got results, but general AAS knowledge has expanded since then.

And considering how available and affordable anti-e’s have become, there’s really no reason not to have them on the shelf at least.

[quote]KSman wrote:
Simon Forsyth wrote:

So why use them? my thinking is if you only use enough to get past your genetic limit then you wont need them. just asking trying to find rational.

With some searching and reading you would be able to answer this yourself. You should be doing that before messing with gear.

Elevated E can compete with free T (FT) at T receptors. This can dampen the expected effects of the T. The result can include loss of libido. The elevated E can also lead to breast tissue development for some.

If you do not understand these issues, you probably also do not understand PCT. We have seen a few guys do an cycle with no AI or PCT who end up afterwards with long term post-cycle HPTA suppression and killed libido.[/quote]

I have never had a problem with Estrogen, not saying that I am all testosterone but I have found that if I taper off then I am usually fine. I understand that AAS knowledge has increase since the old timers but generally I don’t push it (I honestly think this is more of a money issue more than anything).

I agree that one should have some anti E’s in case but so far I haven’t needed them and was wondering if, besides my genetics, it was because I wasn’t using too much AAS.

For those that would call me a beginner I have done 4 cycles, yeah when I first started out I was an 18 yr old punk kid in the military but since then 7 years have past and I have been on and off the AAS… Starting off small and working my way up is better and I have always use some medical supervision.

I guess when I do my bigger cycle I will find out if I need Anti E’s… I will still taper it because it has worked for me in the past and like they say if it aint broken why fix it.

From personal experience I would allways run an AI with a cycle that aromatizes. My last cycle, I ran Letro at low dosages and my estrogen was through the roof and I started to develop gyno. At the end of my cycle I tapered off, finally ending with 5mg of Test and Mast E3D. This worked quite nicely and I was able to avoid running any sort of PCT; no trib, clomid, nolva…

A friend of mine tried a taper as well with straight Test P, and clomid for pct. He also found this a good aproach to ending a cycle. Just have what you need in terms of AI’s and SERMS close by and you should be fine. Bloodwork is also key to tell you where you are really at, not just by how you are feeling.