Abdominal Layer

Guys I’m respctable - accu-measure puts me at 12.7%.
But I have a F*&%ing layer of fat around my waist I can’t get rid of.
I’ve gone up 2" in waist and can’t get it off.
I’m starting to get a little frustrated at this stgae
Now that I think is related to cortisol levels which is in turn determined by the Carnitine levels in the body.
I know there is no-such thing as spot reduction - but how th hell do I drop a pants size - 2" and I’d be happy?

find a good diet like,t-dawg or if you can hack it, try the fat fast.

stick with them for 6-12 weeks and you see the fat come off,

Cortisol???, are u suffering from stress???

Oh, boy, McG. There are easy answers, but no easy solutions. Tokman is right. It’s strictly a BF thing, as you know. “Respectable” and “cut/ripped/shredded” are two different things. It depends on the person, but you’re probably going to have to get to sub-10% to see your abs the way you want to.

If BF hasn’t gone up, but waist/pant size has gone up, then you’ve probably put on some lower back muscle.

L-Carnitine is an amino acid that helps transport fatty acids into the mitochondria. It is helpful with weight loss if you are deficient in it. But if you eat red meat, it is unlikely you are deficient. How do you feel that cortisol (a stress hormone) and carnitine levels are related?

Yeh, I was man there for a while … thankfully that period of my life is over now.

I don’t know all that much about cortisol though …

I’ve been on t-dwag and like I say am lean enough apart from the ab region.

McGeeser, that last layer of ab fat on men is the last to go. Do a search on yohimbine/yohimbe here on the forum. I’ve written about the oral and topical version, both. It antagonizes the alpha 2 receptors, which is what you need to do in conjunction with continuing to diet.


I remember reading somewhere cortisol was related to fat accumulation around the mid region and high coristol levels were related to lower levels of carnitine ?

Maybe I was mistaken.

So the answer is simply - go no-carbs and do HIIT???

Ok so simple terms:
Drink Water
No carbs
Protein @ x2 LBM lbs
No Insulin spike
Yohimbine topical and Oral
Up the HIIT Carido (to 30mins x 5x week???)

… anything else

McG, click on my hyperlinked name which takes you to a screen with the option, List All Posts. You’ll get in greater detail than you could ever hope my nutrional values and approach to weight loss. (grin)

  • Water, yes, absolutely. I drink about 1.5 gallons per day.

  • I don’t agree with “no carbs.” Ketogenic diets can be protein sparing. That’s definitely one approach to weight loss. But I prefer to go P+F through the day and eat P+C PWO. Since I work out every other day (CW’s ABBH currently), I eat P+F on non-workout days (<40g carbs) and take in about 125g carbs on workout days. Of course, my goals are to protect LBM (maybe even put on a little) while dropping BF.

  • Ketogenic diets are probably closer to 1g per pound of LBM, with the rest of the calories coming from fat. The reason for that is that large amounts of protein can cause an insulin response. I generally recommend 1.25 to 1.5g of protein per pound of LBM.

  • If you have access to an ECA stack, I would say use it twice a day at the recommended dosage. It loses its CNS kick quickly, but the thermogenic benefits continue on for many months.

  • Read up on Yohimbe before using it. It should not be taken around carbs. I’ve written on the subject extensively.

  • HIIT should be kept to no more than 20 minutes. You could have a 5 minute warmup and 15 minutes of cool down. But you’ll find out that more than that is catabolic, which is highly counterproductive to your goals.

My preference on cardio is longer-duration (45 minutes), moderate intensity (65-75% of MHR), fasted state cardio. Not everyone here on the forum feels the way I do, but once again, I’ve written extensively on the subject, explaining in great detail my logic and the benefits. It’s at least worth evaluating.

Hey Tampa Terry, I remember reading–I think in Meltdown–that men lose fat from the inside out. That is, torso fat, particularly in the abdominal region is the first to go and the extremities are last.

Am I mistaken? I’m sure opinions simply differ depending on who you speak with. Alessi may think it this way while another may have evidence for another.

I’m inclined to say it’s a matter of genetic disposition.

RSU, I remember reading the same thing. You’re right, especially as it relates to a man that has a huge gut to start with. But when a person gets down to lower BF percentages, fat loss becomes a little more challenging.

There are a couple of issues going on here. First is just that BF needs to be taken down a few notches. The other issue is that both men and women have BF that is resistant to fat loss efforts; women in the gluteo-femoral areas, men on the obliques. Yohimbe is effective with that stubborn fat for men at 10% or lower (McGeeser is close) and for women at 18% or lower.

I agree we all have a genetic disposition. We can accept it or fight it. Me? I intend to die trying! (grin)

Check out the Ultimate Diet 2.0 by Lyle McDonald. Basically it asks the question, “How fast does your metabolism slow down in response to eating very few calories?” The answer, from research, is 3-4 days.

I agree with all of the above post Mc. . I have the same problem you are experiencing with my lower abs. I have to get down close to mid single digits to really get that fat off.

For example right now I am at the tail end of a bulking cycle and everything on me stays cut except my lower abs. I have come to accept this and actually use it as a tool for my bulking cycles. When I start to lose my upper abs that is when I start to cut again. My last bulk cycle being fairly successfull and lasting over two months befor needing to cut, each bulk get better the more I get educated on how my body reacts to different situations (diet/training).

It is just a matter of learning what works for you through experimentation. Also I just had to come to the realization that this is just the way I am predisposed to be. I am simply not going to have a six pack year round. We are not all so blessed. But as TT said we can keep fighting it. Thats half the fun anyhow, if it wasnt hard it wouldnt be worth it.

I wonder how much of the “stubborn fat” is really “genetic”. For example, everyone complaining of stubborn fat, did you have that pattern when you were a kid? or a teenager? I know I didn’t.

I have body comp measurements, based on 4 skinfolds (tricep, bicep, back, waist) during 3 diet periods. BF% is similar at the start of each diet; but the proportions of fat over the 4 different skinfolds are very different. For the first diet, my ratio of arm fat (tricep+bicep) to torso fat (back+waist) was 1. For the second diet, a year late, the ratio was 1.5!! Big change in fat deposition pattern over 1 year. On my current diet, 6 weeks in, that tricep measurement hasn’t budged a mm. :frowning: I don’t have caliper measurements back when I was lean (up until 2000), but I could hardly even pinch a skinfold from my tris back then.

I have my suspicions why. Can’t say it’s genetic (in the pre-programmed sense), though it could be due to the expression of genes in the presence of certain environmental stimuli. I think it’s hormonal.

I hear the whole genetic agurement - and even if it’s true I don’t want to listen really - I got to get it off - End of story - no excuses.

I’ve been going through your stuff Terry - theres’ a lot there so I won’t post anymore questions until I get through it all - but I think part of my problem is the cardio - thanks for now guys for all the comments!!

McGeeser, just as a concept, an approach, to the very best of your ability you want to protect (if not add to) LBM while dieting. The lower the BF%, the more likely you are to lose muscle while dropping BF. Eating patterns become very important as well as PWO nutrition and optimized carb intake.

You’re right about there being lots of “food for thought” here on the forum if you use the search engine! (grin)

Ceaze, good contribution! I’m working my way through UD2 as we speak. Another seminal work by Lyle McDonald!!!