T Nation

ABCDE Diet Survey

Although I’m well aware people have given up on this diet, what results have experienced with it in the past? I’d like to take another swing at this diet and would appreciate all the tips I could get:)

TC’s version has a much better track record. See the Diet Manifesto article at T-mag.

Thanks TEK. I’m well aware of the article TC wrote and how to use the search engine. But I posted this question to get more information then was written on it. I’d like to hear people’s experience with it. (Similarly if you were to read the meltdown article without hearing opinions on it, you would think its the greatest thing since sliced bread).

I’m doing something similar,bulking 2 weeks cutting 1. It’s early to tell. I started it after dieting for 2 weeks when i read the article you mentioned and decided to give it a try. I gained 6.6 pounds the first 2 weeks, but i think most of it was water weight (not sure though). Since i started cutting (3 days ago) i lost 2 pounds. i’m only cutting for 3 or 4 mode days.
Also i started HST at the same time so it’s hard to tell what’s working.

If you wan’t i will post my progress.

Actually I’d love to know how that working out for you:) Secondly, How are you keeping track of your body compositon? With calipers or with a scale? -Thanks

I went 1 week bulk 5days diet. The reason being is after 1 week I started to gain fat at a much faster rate. After 5 days of hard core dieting I really started to lose muscle at a increased rate. At the time I was not using Androsol or Mag 10 which could make the 2 week on 2 week off more productive.

I was actually thinking about alternating 1 week Massive eating with 1 week Don’t Diet for a couple months in order to maintain body weight while shedding fat. I don’t have a lot of fat left to lose and am not in a huge rush, and I thought this might allow me to maintain my body weight (since massive eating does not generally result in a tonne of fat gain) and still lose the last bit of fat. Anyone tried this? Results?

Some people have complained that ABCDE bulking phase made them gain too much fat, but the calorie suggestions are pretty much the same as massive eating?!?!?!?

I’m using the scale and the mirror mainly. I use one of those hand held things (can’t remember the name) that we have at the gym, the reading it gives are pretty consistent (12% now), but i don’t really trust it (though i think i’m close to this value).

So i’m not being really scientific about my body composition changes. I mainly use the amount of fat in my face and abs as a guide.

I had very good results with the program. That’s the diet that I used during my 12-week BFL cycle; and as most of you know; I won.

Just a note: I found Akerfeldt's protein cycling recommendations essential to the "cutting" portion of the 4-week cycle. Having said that, I recommend BCAA's and Glutamine instead of the HMB and glutamine. I'd also recommend this type of high/low protein intake during the off-weeks of a Mag-10 cycle.

My cycles looked like this for the 12 week period:

2 bulk, 2 cut

2 bulk, 1 cut

2 bulk, 3 cut, pictures

ABDCE is a good plan. he had the idea of micro-cycles down before most people even thought about it. have you noticed that the growth surge project is in two week cycles? and a typical cycle of mag10 is two weeks?

everyone’s true cycle time will differ though, so you can’t just follow the two week time frame with your eyes closed. if you pay close enough attention you can tell when you need to change gears.

the days of bulking for months at a time have been dead for quite a while now and the ABCDE routine was at the forefront of this way of thinking. kevo

Actually Hatfield has a diet which resembles delta 1250, and its been out for about 10 years. ITs called the zig-zag diet. Give it a try

I don’t know if you guys remember it or not but in an old MM2K Duchaine column he had his own method of ABCDE that involved monitoring body temp as well as b.f. levels to determine how long each cycle should be. I’ll try and find it if anyone’s interested.

I think people gave up on this diet a little too quickly. A lot of the feedback I’ve seen about it mentions excessive fat gain, but I think that this could have been due more to bad execution/ misunderstanding of the principles of the diet than to a bad program in itself. When Akerfeldt mentioned “guilt free ice cream and Swedish meatballs” I think some people took it to mean that EVERY meal could be like this.

I’ve done this bulking phase about 5 times since the articles came out several years ago and had pretty good results. Each time I’ve performed one of these cycles, I’ve retained between 4-6 lbs after dieting back to the pre-cycle bodyfat levels. Not exactly steroid like, but not bad when you’re stuck at the same weight for a few months.

The information in the articles is pretty compelling and not too far from current advice on bulking - no more than 2 weeks, more protein & carbs than fat, train hard and heavy, etc. Even if you don’t buy the nutritional advice, the training tips and technical information are worth the time. If you’re going to try one of these cycles, I recommend the following:

  1. Food quality is important. You can eat some foods normally considered bad, but the bulk of your calories should be high quality.

  2. Keep a food log to make sure you get the right number of calories and grams of protein.

  3. Train harder than usual. You need volume, but you also need to move some weight. Something like GVT with 10 sets of 6 or 5 works pretty well. Stick to the basic movements. Bench or dumbbell presses, pull-ups or pulldowns, squats, etc with a few sets for smaller groups. OK to train to failure, use forced reps, etc on second week even if you usually avoid.

  4. Use your favorite supplement. When I first started doing these, there was nothing out there but Creatine and HMB. These days your choices are limitless. Obviously, MAG 10 seems to fit the bill. Otherwise, anything that helps gain muscle, reduce fat gain, etc. is useful. I’m trying MAG 10 for the first time this week under this program and I’m interested to see how it affects my results.

Obviously these are just my suggestions based on what has worked for me. I’d like to hear any other feedback out there to help me refine my own program.

Joel- I seen your awesome results on the BFL site. Congrats!!!:slight_smile: I was wondering if you were still using this diet, if not have u moved onto a more productive one? Seems hard to beat with the gains you’ve made in such a short time.

What’s up with the name change? Anyway, I remember Duchaine’s article and I think that you stopped bulking when your abdominal skinfold increased by 1-2mm and you stopped cutting when your waking temperature had decreased by 1 degree farenheit. Pretty good markers if you ask me. Just make sure you have a detailed log of these measurements before starting to use them because you need to understand your day to day variability before you use any measurement tool to define when you make changes in your training and diet.

Just a note. At the beginning of June starts my 12 week bulking cylce. I will be using the ABCDE diet with the protein cycling recommendations during low cal phases (4 days high, 3 low). During the “on” weeks, I’ll use MAG-10 and train with very high volume akin to GVT2000. During the “off” weeks, I’ll use 5x5 and a fair amount of cardio and interval work. I’ll let you know how it turns out.

sorry, the previous post was aimed at all, not just Podge

I have had great success with ABCDE
A-Amstel Light
D-Dos Equis
E- Edelweiss
good mass gains, wallet took a beating

CoCo- I still use ABCDE for on-weeks of a bulking cycle, still cycle protein on off-weeks, but go with a more moderate calorie intake (maintainance or slightly hypocaloric).

Jason- I honestly think your program looks damn good; this is exactly how I would approach the 12-week cycle...probably would have gotten even better results than I did before.