T Nation

ABC: CIA to Destabilize Iran

[i]"ABC News, May 22, 2007. The CIA has received secret presidential approval to mount a covert “black” operation to destabilize the Iranian government, current and former officials in the intelligence community tell the Blotter on ABCNews.com.

The sources, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the sensitive nature of the subject, say President Bush has signed a “nonlethal presidential finding” that puts into motion a CIA plan that reportedly includes a coordinated campaign of propaganda, disinformation and manipulation of Iran’s currency and international financial transactions." [/i]

What do you right-wingers make of that? Isn’t it clear-cut state-sponsored terrorism? Or is it only terrorism when others do it? Enlighten us.

How is “nonlethal” considered terrorism?

[quote]lixy wrote:
[i]"ABC News, May 22, 2007. The CIA has received secret presidential approval to mount a covert “black” operation to destabilize the Iranian government, current and former officials in the intelligence community tell the Blotter on ABCNews.com.

The sources, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the sensitive nature of the subject, say President Bush has signed a “nonlethal presidential finding” that puts into motion a CIA plan that reportedly includes a coordinated campaign of propaganda, disinformation and manipulation of Iran’s currency and international financial transactions." [/i]

What do you right-wingers make of that? Isn’t it clear-cut state-sponsored terrorism? Or is it only terrorism when others do it? Enlighten us.[/quote]

Refer to link called “Iran at war with the US.”

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
How is “nonlethal” considered terrorism?[/quote]

This guy downplays the very lethal actions Iran is taking in Iraq…Blinders.

[quote]lixy wrote:
"ABC News, May 22, 2007. The CIA has received secret presidential approval to …[/quote]

How secret is it if it’s on ABC News?

Seriously lixy, if you consider propaganda and disinformation are terrorism then you must consider yourself a terrorist.

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Seriously lixy, if you consider propaganda and disinformation are terrorism then you must consider yourself a terrorist.[/quote]

Wow, I’m speechless…

profound !

The Iranians are probably laughing at us. They expected their nuke weapons labs to get blown to shit and instead they got this paper tiger type bullshit. Laughable.

Bomb 'em or Americans die, Georgie. Pick one.

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
The Iranians are probably laughing at us. They expected their nuke weapons labs to get blown to shit and instead they got this paper tiger type bullshit. Laughable.

Bomb 'em or Americans die, Georgie. Pick one.[/quote]

Your understanding of action and consequence is infallible as always HH.

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
How is “nonlethal” considered terrorism?[/quote]

Educate yourself.

“Terrorism is a term used to describe violence or other harmful acts. Terrorism expert Walter Laqueur in 1999 has counted over 100 definitions and concludes that the “only general characteristic generally agreed upon is that terrorism involves violence and the threat of violence”. Most definitions of terrorism include only those acts which are intended to create fear or “terror”, are perpetrated for an ideological goal (as opposed to a “madman” attack), and deliberately target “non-combatants”.”

[quote]pookie wrote:
lixy wrote:
"ABC News, May 22, 2007. The CIA has received secret presidential approval to …

How secret is it if it’s on ABC News? [/quote]

Welcome to the modern age.

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
The Iranians are probably laughing at us. They expected their nuke weapons labs to get blown to shit and instead they got this paper tiger type bullshit. Laughable.

Bomb 'em or Americans die, Georgie. Pick one.[/quote]

That’s some unfounded claim alright!

Try thinking with your brain once in a while.

I think the key point in the intelligence finding and directive from the President is:

“The “nonlethal” aspect of the presidential finding means CIA officers may not use deadly force in carrying out the secret operations against Iran.”
(from http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2007/05/bush_authorizes.html)

It is quite a reach to declare covert intelligence actions a terrorist attack.

[quote]lixy wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
How is “nonlethal” considered terrorism?

Educate yourself.

[i]"Terrorism is a term used to describe violence or other harmful acts. Terrorism expert Walter Laqueur in 1999 has counted over 100 definitions and concludes that the “only general characteristic generally agreed upon is that terrorism involves violence and the threat of violence”.

Most definitions of terrorism include only those acts which are intended to create fear or “terror”, are perpetrated for an ideological goal (as opposed to a “madman” attack), and deliberately target “non-combatants”."[/i]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism[/quote]

Thank you for proving my point. Using a media campaign and nonlethal tactics are not terrorism.

[quote]BH6 wrote:
I think the key point in the intelligence finding and directive from the President is:

“The “nonlethal” aspect of the presidential finding means CIA officers may not use deadly force in carrying out the secret operations against Iran.”
(from http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2007/05/bush_authorizes.html)

It is quite a reach to declare covert intelligence actions a terrorist attack.

[/quote]

Especially since Iran is already committing acts of war against the US and Iraq.

[quote]lixy wrote:
What do you right-wingers make of that? Isn’t it clear-cut state-sponsored terrorism? Or is it only terrorism when others do it? Enlighten us.[/quote]

Two comments:

  1. This is not “terrorism”. This is what the US does to get information. The CIA by its nature is in the business of gathering information. It is not in their interest to use “terrorism” as this grabs attention and that is counterproductive to intelligence gathering.

The US has CIA agents in EVERY country. This is nothing new. Subverting their government to help stop nuclear enrichment seems like it would not work.

  1. How secretive can this be now that ABC blew it? To me this is far preferable to invading. Maybe this time they will learn something and not mess it up.

From BBC News:

Iran’s intelligence ministry has accused a prominent Iranian-American academic of trying to overthrow the country’s Islamic system of government.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6679779.stm

It certainly makes Iran’s fears legitimate. What I don’t understand is, if Iran and it’s government is run by the faithful, and Allah cannot be denied, why are they afraid?

I know, I know. Bad argument. They don’t fear America invasions. They fear their own populace (as mindless dupes of the Evil American Way) overthrowing the Theocracy.

Because, why should they get haircuts they want or “fraternize” with the opposite sex in an ice cream parlor? These are examples of despicable acts of atrocity that the government surely has every right, no, duty! to quash.

Well, if ABC is trumpeting it around it’s not secret or covert and will probably not happen, if it were going to in the first place. That is of course, if the leak was unintentional. The leak was probably intentional as part of a disinformation campaign.

I can’t imagine anyone in the CIA leaking confidential info with out becoming another star on the wall before to long. You know, getting that much desired assignment in Sudan.

[quote]lixy wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
The Iranians are probably laughing at us. They expected their nuke weapons labs to get blown to shit and instead they got this paper tiger type bullshit. Laughable.

Bomb 'em or Americans die, Georgie. Pick one.

That’s some unfounded claim alright!

Try thinking with your brain once in a while.[/quote]

Okay.

When in doubt, bomb. Kill 'em all. Exterminate every rat that’s a threat to America.

You can’t ‘de-stabilize’ an army of rabid rats. Kill 'em all.

Was that better?

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
lixy wrote:
What do you right-wingers make of that? Isn’t it clear-cut state-sponsored terrorism? Or is it only terrorism when others do it? Enlighten us.

Two comments:

  1. This is not “terrorism”. This is what the US does to get information. The CIA by its nature is in the business of gathering information. It is not in their interest to use “terrorism” as this grabs attention and that is counterproductive to intelligence gathering.

The US has CIA agents in EVERY country. This is nothing new. Subverting their government to help stop nuclear enrichment seems like it would not work.

  1. How secretive can this be now that ABC blew it? To me this is far preferable to invading. Maybe this time they will learn something and not mess it up.[/quote]

This is equivalent to outing Valerie Phlame. Those who did this should be hunted down and dealt with.

God bless our C(hristians) I(n)
A(ction)!