T Nation

ABBH - Weight Usage


#1

looking in to running a Waterbury training regimen for a bit. I know there are those that don’t love Waterbury and those who do… But my question is in regards to starting weight and I hope you guys have some answers for me:

I haven’t tested my true 1RM, but I have been running a linear progression, which I know is coming to a halt soon. As of last session, I managed 242.5 x 8 on bench. I’ll focus on bench for the question, as the same principle will cover other main lifts…

My projected 1RM, using a calc (which I realize isn’t always accurate) is about 310. I figure I could cut ten pounds off and I’m somewhere in the ball park of my 1RM. The program calls for 80% of 1RM… That’s 240… 10x3 I could probably pull off which is first week… 10x4… Maybe… 10x5… Ya… I’m not sure. I’m not saying I can’t… Just looks pretty difficult.

Would I be better off starting with a training max at about 290? Or just give it a roll with a 300 TM and bust my ass to hit that 10x5?


#2

[quote]KorStrength wrote:
looking in to running a Waterbury training regimen for a bit. I know there are those that don’t love Waterbury and those who do… But my question is in regards to starting weight and I hope you guys have some answers for me:

I haven’t tested my true 1RM, but I have been running a linear progression, which I know is coming to a halt soon. As of last session, I managed 242.5 x 8 on bench. I’ll focus on bench for the question, as the same principle will cover other main lifts…

My projected 1RM, using a calc (which I realize isn’t always accurate) is about 310. I figure I could cut ten pounds off and I’m somewhere in the ball park of my 1RM. The program calls for 80% of 1RM… That’s 240… 10x3 I could probably pull off which is first week… 10x4… Maybe… 10x5… Ya… I’m not sure. I’m not saying I can’t… Just looks pretty difficult.

Would I be better off starting with a training max at about 290? Or just give it a roll with a 300 TM and bust my ass to hit that 10x5?
[/quote]

Give it a shot. It’s supposed to be challenging. Won’t you feel fucking awesome if you get 10x5 at 240? What if you do 6 reps on that last set, just because you could?

Let’s say you’re feeling particularly bad on that 10x5 day, though. Just reduce the weight so you can get all the reps in.


#3

Awesome reply! Thanks! Definitely true and a great point.

One more question: I’m thinking of doing a program progression that he outlines in his books… Does anyone have any recommendations on how to increase my max from month to month? (Each runs around a month).

I’m thinking 5 for upper body, 10 for lower… Be more conservative if the reps are more difficult…


#4

[quote]KorStrength wrote:
The program calls for 80% of 1RM… That’s 240… 10x3 I could probably pull off which is first week… 10x4… Maybe… 10x5… Ya… I’m not sure. I’m not saying I can’t… Just looks pretty difficult.[/quote]
Like Gooch said, you’re working out. It’s supposed to be difficult. Pretty sure Waterbury has said in the past that using your 6-8RM works well for 10x3, so you’re on point there. Working with 240-250 should be fine.

Not sure I follow, most of his programs are well-laid out with specific progressions and finite timetables to follow each routine. You don’t necessarily need to “change your max” each month, since you’ll have an idea of your working weights from whatever you’re currently doing. Changing programs from month to month should flow to coordinate goals. This thread might give you some ideas: http://tnation.t-nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_body_training_performance_bodybuilding/order_of_waterbury_programs_2

In general Waterbury does advocate being somewhat conservative with the load, avoid hitting failure, and always keep some speed on the bar.


#5

Hi Chris, thanks for the post.

Pushing myself isn’t the issue. I just want to avoid failure. The first reply to the thread was perfect. If I’m not going to hit it (I’ll bleed from my eyes trying) then lower the weight and hit it.

As far as progression, I want to follow the “Increase strength and muscle mass” program he lays out. Specifically, ABBH, SFM, WM, HH, SC, AW, LFGB, QD, WM, HH, LFGB, QD.

For ABBH I use 80% of 1RM. But the next month, for Strength Focused Mesocycle, I’d be using the same load… When I know that after a month of ABBH my max certainly increased. Do I arbitrarily make the decision on increase? I read his book and I don’t see any clear reference to progressing month to month, program to program. Having said that, knowing what I do know, I’d say either 2.5% increase on my max or 5 lbs for upper, 10 for lower makes sense…

Hope I made that more clear.

I’ll check out that link, too. Thank you!


#6

[quote]KorStrength wrote:
For ABBH I use 80% of 1RM. But the next month, for Strength Focused Mesocycle, I’d be using the same load…[/quote]
SFM uses significantly different volume, so the overall stimulus is still different even if the rep range and load are similar.

That may work well enough, yep. Again, the big thing with Waterbury’s programs are to never hit failure and avoid many grinding reps/sets. He plays a lot with volume, so going heavier each month isn’t always the be-all, end-all.

Might also want to check out ABBH2, which has some suggestions for what to do after ABBH:


#7

Chris,

I just wanted to say thank you for your time. Forums, in general, can be a difficult place to navigate and deal with the constant barrage of questions. I appreciate your time and thanks again.


#8

Not to hijack the thread but does anyone know of any pre-written Waterbury routines that use an upper/lower split?

I’m a big fan of the guy but I hate full body routines. After squatting there’s no way in hell I’m doing any heavy upper body stuff


#9

Obviously, I’m no expert…

But what I found works wonders for full body splits is squatting and deadlifting last in their designated sessions has been amazing.

Yes, it’s a touch harder than if I started with them, but it has honestly only helped me.

Others may have other advice/experience. Just wanted to share mine.


#10

[quote]Yogi wrote:
Not to hijack the thread but does anyone know of any pre-written Waterbury routines that use an upper/lower split?

I’m a big fan of the guy but I hate full body routines. After squatting there’s no way in hell I’m doing any heavy upper body stuff[/quote]

Not upper / lower, but see this :


#11

[quote]knokkelezoute73 wrote:

[quote]Yogi wrote:
Not to hijack the thread but does anyone know of any pre-written Waterbury routines that use an upper/lower split?

I’m a big fan of the guy but I hate full body routines. After squatting there’s no way in hell I’m doing any heavy upper body stuff[/quote]

Not upper / lower, but see this :


[/quote]
Google Chad Waterbury programs pdf.

BBB, ABBH and SOB templates are a few you could look at.

His book (Muscle Revolution) is quite interesting and offers a good way to look at his programs, no matter your goal.

You should really try his full body templates. His Waterbury Method is well designed.


#12

[quote]KorStrength wrote:
Hi Chris, thanks for the post.

Pushing myself isn’t the issue. I just want to avoid failure. The first reply to the thread was perfect. If I’m not going to hit it (I’ll bleed from my eyes trying) then lower the weight and hit it.

As far as progression, I want to follow the “Increase strength and muscle mass” program he lays out. Specifically, ABBH, SFM, WM, HH, SC, AW, LFGB, QD, WM, HH, LFGB, QD.

For ABBH I use 80% of 1RM. But the next month, for Strength Focused Mesocycle, I’d be using the same load… When I know that after a month of ABBH my max certainly increased. Do I arbitrarily make the decision on increase? I read his book and I don’t see any clear reference to progressing month to month, program to program. Having said that, knowing what I do know, I’d say either 2.5% increase on my max or 5 lbs for upper, 10 for lower makes sense…

Hope I made that more clear.

I’ll check out that link, too. Thank you![/quote]

Re read around page 33. You do have to use common sense and knowledge for progression.

And yes, it is hard. Wait till you do 30 reps…


#13

[quote]JFG wrote:

Re read around page 33. You do have to use common sense and knowledge for progression.

And yes, it is hard. Wait till you do 30 reps…[/quote]

Read it. That’s the section about different ways to progress. Totally understand that. But, I’ll be progressing that way weekly in the 10x3 stuff as I’ll be adding 10 reps/week.

My question was more geared towards the next “program/phase”.

I firmly believe that I’ll need to increase my max between each phase of this training, and adjust the other ways of progression within each phase.

I definitely appreciate the reply though, and by all means if I’m off base feel free to cyber slap the shit out of me and correct me.


#14

You just need to make a decision.

No one here knows your conditioning. That’s why he emphasizes Gpp.

10x3 is different then 10x5 and different from 6x5.

I redid ABBH template twice because my conditioning sucked balls. Some where easy, some I dropped weight after the first week, etc. The second month was way more fluid and still kicked my ass.

Ad for template to template, play it by ear. Add weight, don’t, just see how it feels. After changing template, my front Squat went up, but no way my bench did. I was not proficient in dips and that took its toll on my shoulders. I was glad to play it safe.

Good luck with it, I know Im really enjoying his work outs.


#15

[quote]Yogi wrote:
Not to hijack the thread but does anyone know of any pre-written Waterbury routines that use an upper/lower split?[/quote]
Well, there’s ABBH. The routine the OP asked about. :wink:

Also ABBH 2 and Big Boy Basics:


But like JFG said, Waterbury designs his routines very specifically, so you’re never really killing yourself on one movement and then trying to do a ton of brutal work after. Volume and load are usually juggled throughout the session when hitting the whole body in each workout.


#16

[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:

[quote]Yogi wrote:
Not to hijack the thread but does anyone know of any pre-written Waterbury routines that use an upper/lower split?[/quote]
Well, there’s ABBH. The routine the OP asked about. :wink:

Also ABBH 2 and Big Boy Basics:


But like JFG said, Waterbury designs his routines very specifically, so you’re never really killing yourself on one movement and then trying to do a ton of brutal work after. Volume and load are usually juggled throughout the session when hitting the whole body in each workout.[/quote]

I just ask these questions to test your encyclopaedic knowledge of T-Nation articles, Chris