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Ab Training, Yay or Nay

hey guys n girls, i have a small question regarding ab training while cutting/dieting.

Im 5’9 and 250ish at 13 percent body fat , i have alot of mass etc and my diet is working well , coupled with fasted cardio 3 mornings a week and training the other 3, my question is around ab training.

I kinda know that ab development or the showing of said muscles relies on your leaness generally, so should i keep training and wait for them to appear or should they be worked like all other muscles to help speed up the process.??

I was always of the impression that due to my heavy deads and squats etc abs need not be trained, can any one shed some light on this , or offer an opinion .

im aiming at 10 percent at the mo , but the goal is 9 or under at 235-240 …

I found that the heavy mass building exercises I do built a thick mass of abs. I would focus more on fat loss to see these muscles.

yeah i am of the same thought , thanks for that

i am also aware , just in case i get flames spat at me , there was a tech prob with my posts and this was posted 2 times

Actually, i only train abs hard about once every 2 or 3 months. Like, every couple months, I’ll dedicate a day solely to abs, and do like 10 sets of 10-15 reps, really heavy. And aside from that, I let the compound moves train them (and I do tons of cardio). It may not be the most ideal method, but it seems to work for me.

I even notice they will get sore a day or two later, occassionally, even when I dont train them. For example, when I do high-rep chins, and I really strain, or add a leg kick momentum at the end of the set, it really fatigues my abs.

Hypertrophied abs will look better than less developed ones. If your abs need direct stimulation to grow than you should do that. If they grow being flexed during squatting and deadlifting then you probably don’t need to do as much direct work.

I did a ton of direct ab work when I was just starting out and have backed off considerably in the past year or two, and they still seem to be just fine from the attention they get during rack pulls and squatting.

How visible they are at a certain bodyfat level is going to have a lot to do with genetics. I have (I assume) deep tendon attachments and full bellies in my ab muscles because I can see them without flexing them, regardless of how smooth I get everywhere else. I can see my serratus muscles even more than the “6 pack” muscles, go figure.

Train your core rather than your “abs” and there is a difference.

[quote]slimthugger wrote:
Train your core rather than your “abs” and there is a difference.[/quote]

I havn’t trained my “abs” in over 6 months, but I’m starting to think I should since my “core” doesn’t target my rectus ab. Is core training enough stimulus on the rectus abdomonis to induce growth or at least maintenance of muscle? Obviously my TVA and obliques are getting bigger+stronger but what about ye olde abs?

[quote]akkxn wrote:
slimthugger wrote:
Train your core rather than your “abs” and there is a difference.

I havn’t trained my “abs” in over 6 months, but I’m starting to think I should since my “core” doesn’t target my rectus ab. Is core training enough stimulus on the rectus abdomonis to induce growth or at least maintenance of muscle? Obviously my TVA and obliques are getting bigger+stronger but what about ye olde abs?[/quote]

if you’re worried about it, train them.

[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
akkxn wrote:
slimthugger wrote:
Train your core rather than your “abs” and there is a difference.

I havn’t trained my “abs” in over 6 months, but I’m starting to think I should since my “core” doesn’t target my rectus ab. Is core training enough stimulus on the rectus abdomonis to induce growth or at least maintenance of muscle? Obviously my TVA and obliques are getting bigger+stronger but what about ye olde abs?

if you’re worried about it, train them.[/quote]

Very true. It won’t hurt your endeavors. Old school bodybuilders used to train abs with 9-12 sets of 4 different exercises and all. Bottom line. It IS a muscle- so build it.

[quote]slimthugger wrote:
waylanderxx wrote:
akkxn wrote:
slimthugger wrote:
Train your core rather than your “abs” and there is a difference.

I havn’t trained my “abs” in over 6 months, but I’m starting to think I should since my “core” doesn’t target my rectus ab. Is core training enough stimulus on the rectus abdomonis to induce growth or at least maintenance of muscle? Obviously my TVA and obliques are getting bigger+stronger but what about ye olde abs?

if you’re worried about it, train them.

Very true. It won’t hurt your endeavors. Old school bodybuilders used to train abs with 9-12 sets of 4 different exercises and all. Bottom line. It IS a muscle- so build it.[/quote]

In that case, what are the better ab exercises you can do. I’m thinking leg raises will get quite a few votes, any other favourites?

Flags are one of my favorites (leg raises but hanging off a bench).
Dont do to many reps just aim for like 4x8,as they can give soreness for along period of time.Obviously the more you have hanging off the bench, the better the resistence.
Hope that helps.

I like “hanging pikes.” I’m sure they have other names, but that’s what I’ve heard them called. You hang by your hands from a chinup bar and attempt to lift your feet all the way up so that the soles of your shoes are facing the ceiling.

Right now I can only do a few sets of 5-6 reps, but I definitely feel it the next day. One thing I like about them is they double as a way you work your grip and other muscles. I get a more complete soreness throughout my abs.

oh yeah buddy , started doing some ab training and did 3 sets of 10 pikes triple setted with swiss ball weighted sit ups and medicine ball explosive twists. Fucken sore today .

thanks for the advice guys, and slimm thugger your right they are muscles so i should train them!!!

if you go to mens heath there is a sweet abb routine called THE MEDICINE BALL 200. i do it 3 times a week and my abbs have started to pop out like crazy. it doesnt really work your lower abbs as much as i would like. so i will tre Flag exercise!

I would train them once a week with an exercise you can systematically increase weight on. I put my vote in for weighted situps on the decline bench.

Squats and deads for working the abs is like power cleans for working your calves. Yeah you use them but at some point you need direct work to keep up the progress.

Besides, squats and deads are hip extension exercises while situps are flexion. I would think standing presses or overhead squats would be the best compound for the abs area.

[quote]elano wrote:
I would train them once a week with an exercise you can systematically increase weight on. I put my vote in for weighted situps on the decline bench.

Squats and deads for working the abs is like power cleans for working your calves. Yeah you use them but at some point you need direct work to keep up the progress.

Besides, squats and deads are hip extension exercises while situps are flexion. I would think standing presses or overhead squats would be the best compound for the abs area.[/quote]

A couple of common misconceptions in this post.

Weighted situps of any kind, but especially on a decline, work the psoas (hip flexor) muscles through much of the range of motion. There are certainly more ideal methods for training the abs through flexion.

Secondly, flexion is not the only movement that should be used to train your abdominals. Your abs also control lateral movement and rotation. But the main function of the abdominals (and I’m talking internal obliques, external obliques, rectius abdominus and transverse abdominus) is most likely stability of the spine rather than any type of mobility. All the above mentioned muscle groups have muscle fibers that run in different directions in order to provide stability. Which is why heavily loaded exercises that force stability of the abs (ie. heavy squats) can be so fatiguing. Certainly the abs do contribute to mobility as well, so that form of training should not be overlooked, but it is not the only function, either.

Hope that all makes sense.

[quote]tdrink wrote:

Weighted situps of any kind, but especially on a decline, work the psoas (hip flexor) muscles through much of the range of motion. There are certainly more ideal methods for training the abs through flexion.

Secondly, flexion is not the only movement that should be used to train your abdominals. Your abs also control lateral movement and rotation. But the main function of the abdominals (and I’m talking internal obliques, external obliques, rectius abdominus and transverse abdominus) is most likely stability of the spine rather than any type of mobility. All the above mentioned muscle groups have muscle fibers that run in different directions in order to provide stability. Which is why heavily loaded exercises that force stability of the abs (ie. heavy squats) can be so fatiguing. Certainly the abs do contribute to mobility as well, so that form of training should not be overlooked, but it is not the only function, either.

Hope that all makes sense.[/quote]

Well then tell us the most effective way to train your abs without working those damn hip flexors. You don’t have to say squat, press, or deadlift because we all already do those.

[quote]elano wrote:
tdrink wrote:

Weighted situps of any kind, but especially on a decline, work the psoas (hip flexor) muscles through much of the range of motion. There are certainly more ideal methods for training the abs through flexion.

Secondly, flexion is not the only movement that should be used to train your abdominals. Your abs also control lateral movement and rotation. But the main function of the abdominals (and I’m talking internal obliques, external obliques, rectius abdominus and transverse abdominus) is most likely stability of the spine rather than any type of mobility. All the above mentioned muscle groups have muscle fibers that run in different directions in order to provide stability. Which is why heavily loaded exercises that force stability of the abs (ie. heavy squats) can be so fatiguing. Certainly the abs do contribute to mobility as well, so that form of training should not be overlooked, but it is not the only function, either.

Hope that all makes sense.

Well then tell us the most effective way to train your abs without working those damn hip flexors. You don’t have to say squat, press, or deadlift because we all already do those.[/quote]

I would say good abdominal exercises that minimize hip flexor action would be kneeling cable crunches, planks and other isometric holds, russian chair twists and woodchoppers to name a few. They do not eliminate hip flexor action, but they certainly minimize it more than sit-up variations.

And I hope you didn’t interpret my post as cutting on you, because that was not my intention.

what would be the best exercise for building your lower abbs?