[quote] Brook wrote:
Women DO need PCT - as is poast cyc
le threapy.
[/quote]
WTF?
Funny this thread shows up now, I’ve got an interesting story to relate. But first let me state that I know NOTHING of AAS dosing for women.
I was talking to a figure competitor who works out at our gym about her usage. She goes with 10mg of Var for 8 weeks, and then follows it up with Nolva, 10mg ED for the first week, 5mg ED for the next week. She said that she gets horrible cramps from it, and feels god awful for a week or two after stopping. Now knowing that women didn’t need PCT, would it be reasonable to suggest to her that she doesn’t need to do this? I just assumed it was standard protocol for women since it’s standard protocol for men.
she would grow a female penis on a heavy cycle after long-term usage…
[quote]Hussayn wrote:
a female penis [/quote]
o_0
Really now?
Seriously?
A female penis?
Westclock, Testolious and Bill, (and others) thanks for the info.
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
Hussayn wrote:
a female penis
o_0
Really now?
Seriously?
A female penis?
[/quote]
The clit is actually what would become the penis if the fetus where exposed to testosterone.
All fetus start out female, and a jolt of test determines if your male of female and starts the body changes.
With test, the clit will enlarge till its similar in appearance to a mini penis.
this is why it is possible to have women with an XY…they are the men who are non responsive/immune to testosterone so the clit is never enlarged, the testes don’t drop, and all the male characteristics don’t develop. If women gear hard enough they get a massive clit that looks like a mini penis (I have seen it with my own eyes at one of canada’s finest strip clubs).
In general for women it is best to experiment with fast acting compounds like orals or mild short esters because they can find out what their limit is without ending up with a mini penis or a voice like a dude.
The best compounds for the initial experiments are: Winny, Proviron, OT, Var, Primo (oral), and maybe injectable NPP for this reason…once they figure out what their tolerance is like they could try injectable Primo or Deca but with something that long acting you better not fuck up and overestimate your limit or you could end up looking too manly. Everything else is a little riskier (Bold, Test, etc) but can be done at very low doses, the problem is of course that you can irreversably change yourself which I don’t think anyone is on board with unless they are a Pro.
You have to bear in mind that women do have a small amount of endogenous test in their system so it isn’t like a single drop of test will turn them to a dude but there is a threshold with every women (like there is with men and estrogen turning on gyno) which can’t be crossed for very long before changes become permenant. If a woman experiments first with short acting compounds they can turn back before the changes stick…they just have to be very careful because unlike in men where gyno can be surgically removed you can’t very easily reverse masculinization.
Injectable NPP? What is that?
[quote]Westclock wrote:
BONEZ217 wrote:
Hussayn wrote:
a female penis
o_0
Really now?
Seriously?
A female penis?
The clit is actually what would become the penis if the fetus where exposed to testosterone.
All fetus start out female, and a jolt of test determines if your male of female and starts the body changes.
With test, the clit will enlarge till its similar in appearance to a mini penis.
[/quote]
I’m quite aware of all of that. An enlarged clit is still not a female penis. Women won’t start peeing from their clit’s no matter how much AAS they use.
[quote]buckeye girl wrote:
Injectable NPP? What is that?[/quote]
Nandrolone PhenylPropionate
Similar to deca.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
Bill Roberts wrote:
…Virilization is a threshold matter – in other words, it’s not total use that makes the difference but whether the threshold, which is extremely variable from woman to woman, is crossed. Therefore more moderate steady levels for a longer time are a far better choice than peakier, higher levels planned for a shorter time…
…If testosterone is the only thing available, it is acceptable also if the dose is sufficiently moderated…
Not that Bill needs me to back him up but he is dead on here.[/quote]
So how exactly does a woman go about determining this threshold?
Assuming we’re talking about some sort of oral like winny, var or one of the others mentioned (which seem to be a safer choice than those injectables) would you start off slow with an extremely low dose then work your way up? And lowering the dose, or ending the cycle if virilization begins to occur.
And, how would this relate to dosing on later cycles with other compounds? If I’m interpreting what you guys have said correctly, a longer cycle with a mild injectable is preferred over a shorter cycle with an oral. If we were to determine that X mg/day of winny is the limit, how would that relate to how much Deca one could get away with?
I don’t know if that makes sense, and I’m probably over-thinking, and should not even be worrying about half of these questions unless I’m seriously considering a cycle, but thanks for the answers, nonetheless.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
Yes, start off very slow with a low dose and then work up to where some clit growth/oily skin/throat swelling occurs and then back off.
[/quote]
Exactly.
If using prop, effects should be evident in less than a week, but beware of placebo effect-for example, your voice may feel like its lower to you, but unless other people close to you start to notice it, its probably just your imagination.
I know BR advises a longer ester for more stable blood levels, but IMHO better to try a first cycle with prop so you can bail if things go south. Can switch to Test-E after you get a good level dialed in.
Also funny that old thing about orals being safer than injectables keeps coming up - I just don’t see it that way.
orals are only safer because they clear the system faster.
Granted you can use shorter ester injectables to the same effect, but orals are generally easier for women, as most will not inject.
[quote]testolius wrote:
pushharder wrote:
Yes, start off very slow with a low dose and then work up to where some clit growth/oily skin/throat swelling occurs and then back off.
Exactly.
If using prop, effects should be evident in less than a week, but beware of placebo effect-for example, your voice may feel like its lower to you, but unless other people close to you start to notice it, its probably just your imagination.
I know BR advises a longer ester for more stable blood levels, but IMHO better to try a first cycle with prop so you can bail if things go south. Can switch to Test-E after you get a good level dialed in.[/quote]
Yes, I should have been clearer that the longer acting ester is better for ongoing, non-experimental use. Injections then do not have to be daily but for example every other day or every third day is acceptable. But if experimenting as described then yes propionate use is better as you say, with dosing divided into daily injections best in this case.
[quote]Westclock wrote:
orals are only safer because they clear the system faster.
Granted you can use shorter ester injectables to the same effect, but orals are generally easier for women, as most will not inject.[/quote]
While the psychological barrier absolutely exists in many cases, in fact injecting for example 0.05 mL every other day with an insulin needle is a quite nothing operation, yet yields (if a 200 mg/mL preparation) 35 mg/week. Just as example figures.
[quote]Westclock wrote:
BONEZ217 wrote:
Hussayn wrote:
a female penis
o_0
Really now?
Seriously?
A female penis?
The clit is actually what would become the penis if the fetus where exposed to testosterone.
All fetus start out female, and a jolt of test determines if your male of female and starts the body changes.
With test, the clit will enlarge till its similar in appearance to a mini penis.
[/quote]
This is what happened to RJ.
Ok, I have a few more questions regarding cycling and gains/losses. For a female strength athlete, when would you be on, and when would you be off? For the guys, it seems that long but simple cycles are the common approach. Then when meet time comes around, things get kicked up a notch.
If short oral cycles are the only option for a female (I know there are “safe” injectables, but in the early, experimental phase, lets just say that it is not an option) how would things be set up?
[quote]buckeye girl wrote:
Ok, I have a few more questions regarding cycling and gains/losses. For a female strength athlete, when would you be on, and when would you be off? For the guys, it seems that long but simple cycles are the common approach. Then when meet time comes around, things get kicked up a notch.
If short oral cycles are the only option for a female (I know there are “safe” injectables, but in the early, experimental phase, lets just say that it is not an option) how would things be set up?
I have more, but no time to ask right now…[/quote]
Im not sure I understand the first part of your question.
With an oral cycle youd be more limited in how long you could use.
The only advantage of being a female AAS user is that you dont really have to worry about shutdown of your natural test production.
Even at a low dose orals are liver toxic, and hence could only be safely run for about 6 weeks.
Injectables could be run for an extended period of time in a female, presumably longer than a male cycle, as male must be concerned with natural production recovery.
For males its the greater gains of a longer cycle weighed against the increased difficulty to recover from such a cycle, and if the cycle is excessive it can kill the natural male production permanently.
What you should take depends on what you can get, and how RELIABLE it is.
Anavar for example is my favorite thing to run for female’s cycles. I have never used var myself, because if I ever get any legit stuff I end up selling it to girly friends at cost.
Var is expensive, and alot of places will try to pass off other drugs as var, Ive even seen low dose dbol used instead.
If you were to use “var” that was really low dose dbol you would be absolutely screwed.
If I took low dose dbol, I would grow a little bit, thats all.
You see the issue ? Steroids cant really hurt guys much, girls have to be more cautious.