T Nation

AAS and Fertility in Men

We all know 9hopefully) that BB doses of AAS are known to reduce male fertility alot…

does anyone know what TRT style dosing (100-200mg/wk) does on that matter? And what length of time it may cause an adverse effect on one’s fertility, months or years… and how many…?

Any advice or a point in a relevant direction would be lovely, ta!

This is a personal matter, thanks lads :slight_smile:

JJ

I am sure an important factor would be whether hCG is employed or not.

thx dynamo…

i hadnt thought of that… anyone? Bushy? Saps? THB? Beat? Bill? Testolius? lol!

OK… let me explain… i am using TRT and my missus’s main concern is the fact i may be ruining my chance to have lil fucking bastard kids. :wink: And my aggression… which isnt too bad at all on low doses and i am going to be indulging in A-Management Therapy anyways/…

But while i knew that high dose AAS ruin your lil fellas swimming ability, i wasnt sure about TRT style doses… i suspected they did but…

So HCG at the normal dose which is 100iu ED/EOD is it? :):slight_smile:

Hey JJ,

Below is an hCG study KSman sent me. It presents the reasoning that KSman prefers 250iu EOD. I would recommend you PM him. HRT is his speciality.

Andrea D Coviello, Alvin M Matsumoto, William J Bremner, Karen L Herbst, John K Amory, Bradley D Anawalt, Paul R Sutton, William W Wright, Terry R Brown, Xiaohua Yan, Barry R Zirkin, Jonathan P Jarow

In previous studies of testicular biopsy tissue from healthy men, intratesticular testosterone (ITT) has been shown to be much higher than serum testosterone (T), suggesting that high ITT is needed relative to serum T for normal spermatogenesis in men.

However, the quantitative relationship between ITT and spermatogenesis is not known. To begin to address this issue experimentally, we determined the dose-response relationship between human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG) and ITT to ascertain the minimum dose needed to maintain ITT in the normal range.

Twenty-nine men with normal reproductive physiology were randomized to receive 200 mg T enanthate weekly in combination with either saline placebo or 125, 250, or 500 IU hCG every other day for 3 wk.

ITT was assessed in testicular fluid obtained by percutaneous fine needle aspiration at baseline and at the end of treatment. Baseline serum T (14.1 nmol/liter) was 1.2% of ITT (1174 nmol/liter).

LH and FSH were profoundly suppressed to 5% and 3% of baseline, respectively, and ITT was suppressed by 94% (1234 to 72 nmol/liter) in the T enanthate/placebo group. ITT increased linearly with increasing hCG dose (P < 0.001).

Posttreatment ITT was 25% less than baseline in the 125 IU hCG group, 7% less than baseline in the 250 IU hCG group, and 26% greater than baseline in the 500 IU hCG group.

These results demonstrate that relatively low dose hCG maintains ITT within the normal range in healthy men with gonadotropin suppression. Extensions of this study will allow determination of the ITT concentration threshold required to maintain spermatogenesis in man.

J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2005 May ;90:2595-602 [Pubmed] [Scholar] [SelectDrop] [HideShow]
http://dspace.hsl.washington.edu/dspace/bitstream/2012/52/1/JCEM_2005_Low_Dose_Human.pdf

I don’t know about the hard science of it…studies have been done, and yet you have guys here on high doses of AAS getting their wives pregnant. There’s got to be a reduction in overall sperm count, but hell, it only takes one!

High doses don’t reduce your sperm count to zero in all cases. The woman and I are expecting in February. She conceived while I was on test/deca/d-bol. And yes…it’s mine and was planned.

I would think that an HCG protocol in conjunction with TRT doses would give you a decent chance. The addition of clomid might enhance that as well. I’m not fully educated on TRT though. Ask KSman or pris for a good educated response.

[quote]juice20jd wrote:
High doses don’t reduce your sperm count to zero in all cases. The woman and I are expecting in February. She conceived while I was on test/deca/d-bol. And yes…it’s mine and was planned.

.[/quote]

Were you using HCG during your cycle?

wISH I COULD ADD MY TWO CENTS WORTH.

BUT I’M DRAWING ALL BLANKS ON THIS SUBJECT

[quote]2thepain wrote:
juice20jd wrote:
High doses don’t reduce your sperm count to zero in all cases. The woman and I are expecting in February. She conceived while I was on test/deca/d-bol. And yes…it’s mine and was planned.

.

Were you using HCG during your cycle? [/quote]

No HCG during. I was roughly 5 weeks into my cycle when it happened. I run a little HCG prior to my taper and recovery periods…which in that case was about 12 weeks before conception.

Hmm… this is slightly different juice… the chances of low sperm count while on TRT are different and much more common than those who can recover between cycles… that has to be the case.

You do make some sperm naturally… whereas those who NEVER do are in a different situation. I may be off base here but that seems logical to me.

JJ

[quote] Brook wrote:
Hmm… this is slightly different juice… the chances of low sperm count while on TRT are different and much more common than those who can recover between cycles… that has to be the case.

You do make some sperm naturally… whereas those who NEVER do are in a different situation. I may be off base here but that seems logical to me.

JJ[/quote]

different situation to be sure!! but since i run long term (5-6 month) cycles with about 8 weeks off (6 week taper + 2 totally off weeks)i figured that while different, it may be somewhat applicable.

point is that while being suppressed long term makes it tough…it may still be possible. i know i’m not a TRT guru but i still would think that you would up your chances by running HCG and clomid while maintaining your 1-200 mg dose of test.

i see… i didnt realise the cycles were so long… you said you were 5 weeks in… so naturally i expected it to be an 8 - 12 week cycle… fair nuff then juice.

JJ

Low dose testosterone is used around the rest of the world in male birth control. People are able to come off and return to natural levels after coming off birth control. Theres a discussion on the MD forums in the chem section about long term use.

If Ronnie Coleman can juice heavily, probably never coming off for nearly twenty years then get his wife prego with Triplets withing a year, I’m sure the rest of us will be just fine.

[quote]ironjoe wrote:
If Ronnie Coleman can juice heavily, probably never coming off for nearly twenty years then get his wife prego with Triplets withing a year, I’m sure the rest of us will be just fine.[/quote]

What’r you talking about? Ronnie only uses BSN for his training… Emphasis on the BS part.

Ronnie is expecting triplets?

Is he pregnant? I’ve always wondered about the gut?

ok sorry I had too…forgive me for poking fun at one of the great ones.

seriously tho, triplets? good for him…

DG

Triplets huh? THAT isnt clomid and HCG or anything?! hahahaa!

Triplets is an indication of heavy assistance from fertility drugs, possibly more on the part of the female. Those meds make them release multiple eggs at the same time to improve the chance of them getting impregnated. Thats why you sometimes see triplets, quardriples etc etc… Women giving birth a litter of as much as 6 or possibly more.

You will have to wait and see. Simple as that. im confident you’ll recover. Best thing to do is just go clean for a few months. let your natural hormones do their thing.

I feel the decision to be a father is a very important goal and deserves that type of dedication. it will be worth it. Personally i wouldn’t treat it as a side project to my BB hobby, and i mean no offense.

I could care less about how triplets are formed, is ronnie going to have kids? lol I try and stay up on bodybuilding stuff as I’m an aspiring pro and a huge fan. I hadn’t heard of this…

DG