T Nation

A World Without America

[quote]

That would of course open a debate what “Austria” really is, but then I am having a hard time thinking of something uniquely American except Jazz, Baseball and Peanut butter.

The rest was heavily influenced by Europe.[/quote]

Monster Trucks. I’ll give India the airplane, but good ole American rednecks invented the monster truck.
Goddamnit.

[quote]orion wrote:
olderguy wrote:

I’m with you 100% that the US makes mistakes. No doubt about it. But does anyone think that Europe would exist as it is today without the US involvement in WWII? Come on. Does Orion really think Austria has contributed more to world than the US. Let’s not act like Austria is kinda like Sweden historically. LOL. How many medical advances come from Austria? And is he really naive enough to think that if Austria had any pull in the world, they wouldn’t us it? And it’s not just him. It’s a riot. I just laugh at these people in meaningless countries taking shots at the US for doing things that their countries would be doing if they could. Plain and simple. I really think they are jealous.

Yes, Orion really thinks Austria has contributed more until now than the US, which, given the fact that it is around 1000 years old and at times pretty much was continental Europe, is hardly a surprise.

That would of course open a debate what “Austria” really is, but then I am having a hard time thinking of something uniquely American except Jazz, Baseball and Peanut butter.

The rest was heavily influenced by Europe.[/quote]

How about we ask the question, what has it done lately? Really, I’d like to know. And what happened that it still isn’t continental Europe? Did they decide to downgrade? What? And I guess we are following EU’s lead in medicine and technology. I know I can’t wait for the next movie to be produced in Europe.

And if you want to go back 50 years, I’ll bring up WWII, and the fact you might be one big nation, not under God, if it wasn’t for us. So again, what has Europe done lately? I know they ruled the world at one time, but I guess they wanted to give the lead to some other nation. They all seem to have a little Sweden in them. You know, mind your own business, don’t meddle in affairs other than your own. I respect them for that. To bad we all know that isn’t the case. They all became sorta like Austria. Semi-meaningless in THIS day and age.

[quote]bigflamer wrote:
Ken Kaniff wrote:
Wow, great, some more for the werethegreatestnation crowd.

We are the greatest nation ever.

Period.

[/quote]

Hahahahahahahahahaha.

Period.

[quote]olderguy wrote:
Here’s something gaining ground in the UK

http://tammybruce.com/2007/02/a_world_without_am.php[/quote]

You can’t trust someone who doesn’t know how to calculate. Half Irish, Half Italian, Half Troublemaker = 3 Halves… Arrrighty?

[quote]BH6 wrote:

That would of course open a debate what “Austria” really is, but then I am having a hard time thinking of something uniquely American except Jazz, Baseball and Peanut butter.

The rest was heavily influenced by Europe.

Monster Trucks. I’ll give India the airplane, but good ole American rednecks invented the monster truck.
Goddamnit.

[/quote]

And Jenna Jameson and may God bless you for it!

[quote]olderguy wrote:
orion wrote:
olderguy wrote:

I’m with you 100% that the US makes mistakes. No doubt about it. But does anyone think that Europe would exist as it is today without the US involvement in WWII? Come on. Does Orion really think Austria has contributed more to world than the US. Let’s not act like Austria is kinda like Sweden historically. LOL. How many medical advances come from Austria? And is he really naive enough to think that if Austria had any pull in the world, they wouldn’t us it? And it’s not just him. It’s a riot. I just laugh at these people in meaningless countries taking shots at the US for doing things that their countries would be doing if they could. Plain and simple. I really think they are jealous.

Yes, Orion really thinks Austria has contributed more until now than the US, which, given the fact that it is around 1000 years old and at times pretty much was continental Europe, is hardly a surprise.

That would of course open a debate what “Austria” really is, but then I am having a hard time thinking of something uniquely American except Jazz, Baseball and Peanut butter.

The rest was heavily influenced by Europe.

How about we ask the question, what has it done lately? Really, I’d like to know. And what happened that it still isn’t continental Europe? Did they decide to downgrade? What? And I guess we are following EU’s lead in medicine and technology. I know I can’t wait for the next movie to be produced in Europe.

And if you want to go back 50 years, I’ll bring up WWII, and the fact you might be one big nation, not under God, if it wasn’t for us. So again, what has Europe done lately? I know they ruled the world at one time, but I guess they wanted to give the lead to some other nation. They all seem to have a little Sweden in them. You know, mind your own business, don’t meddle in affairs other than your own. I respect them for that. To bad we all know that isn’t the case. They all became sorta like Austria. Semi-meaningless in THIS day and age.
[/quote]

We had our last good run around 1900-1930 I guess.

Psychology, Austrian school of Economics, Critical Rationalism, Klimt, Kokoschka and basically all in one city.

And it took an Austrian doctor to teach all other doctors to actually wash their hands, so even if you cure cancer Semmelweis has probably saved more peoples lives and will continue to do so.

[quote]orion wrote:
olderguy wrote:
orion wrote:
olderguy wrote:

I’m with you 100% that the US makes mistakes. No doubt about it. But does anyone think that Europe would exist as it is today without the US involvement in WWII? Come on. Does Orion really think Austria has contributed more to world than the US. Let’s not act like Austria is kinda like Sweden historically. LOL. How many medical advances come from Austria? And is he really naive enough to think that if Austria had any pull in the world, they wouldn’t us it? And it’s not just him. It’s a riot. I just laugh at these people in meaningless countries taking shots at the US for doing things that their countries would be doing if they could. Plain and simple. I really think they are jealous.

Yes, Orion really thinks Austria has contributed more until now than the US, which, given the fact that it is around 1000 years old and at times pretty much was continental Europe, is hardly a surprise.

That would of course open a debate what “Austria” really is, but then I am having a hard time thinking of something uniquely American except Jazz, Baseball and Peanut butter.

The rest was heavily influenced by Europe.

How about we ask the question, what has it done lately? Really, I’d like to know. And what happened that it still isn’t continental Europe? Did they decide to downgrade? What? And I guess we are following EU’s lead in medicine and technology. I know I can’t wait for the next movie to be produced in Europe.

And if you want to go back 50 years, I’ll bring up WWII, and the fact you might be one big nation, not under God, if it wasn’t for us. So again, what has Europe done lately? I know they ruled the world at one time, but I guess they wanted to give the lead to some other nation. They all seem to have a little Sweden in them. You know, mind your own business, don’t meddle in affairs other than your own. I respect them for that. To bad we all know that isn’t the case. They all became sorta like Austria. Semi-meaningless in THIS day and age.

We had our last good run around 1900-1930 I guess.

Psychology, Austrian school of Economics, Critical Rationalism, Klimt, Kokoschka and basically all in one city.

And it took an Austrian doctor to teach all other doctors to actually wash their hands, so even if you cure cancer Semmelweis has probably saved more peoples lives and will continue to do so.

[/quote]

I take back everything I have ever said about Austria. And I’m sure if it weren’t for Semmelweis, no doctor would be scrubbing before an operation. Just like without the Wright Bros. there wouldn’t be any planes. [/quote]

[quote]Shoebolt wrote:
bigflamer wrote:
Ken Kaniff wrote:
Wow, great, some more for the werethegreatestnation crowd.

We are the greatest nation ever.

Period.

Hahahahahahahahahaha.

Period.
[/quote]

I’m trying to figure out why this is so funny.

[quote]bigflamer wrote:
Shoebolt wrote:
bigflamer wrote:
Ken Kaniff wrote:
Wow, great, some more for the werethegreatestnation crowd.

We are the greatest nation ever.

Period.

Hahahahahahahahahaha.

Period.

I’m trying to figure out why this is so funny.

[/quote]

It’s ok. Take your time.

[quote]nik19 wrote:
brucevangeorge wrote:
olderguy wrote:
Here’s something gaining ground in the UK

http://tammybruce.com/2007/02/a_world_without_am.php

Complete bullshit. No one really knows how it would be without the US.

Lets suppose the crap in the video “could happen”. Lets look at the wright brothers. They made the first flyable airplane. If America were not around that would mean thet there are no airplanes because there are no wright brothers.

This cannot happen since someone would eventually figure it out and design the blasted thing. Although Airplanes would look slightly different.

Same could be said for everything else in the clip.

-Bruce.

Well… I havent come across this clip before, its also a little odd because the majority of Britain is actually quite anti American, the Iraq war being a main cause obviously.

Regarding the Wright brothers, ancient hindus had invented planes about 5000 years ago

In 1895 a local Mumbai man who was a sanskrit scholar studied a particular ‘veda’ and was astonished to see blue prints for creating a flying vehicle, he constructed it and a full eight years before the Wright Brothers` first flight at Kitty hawk, North Carolina, USA, Shivkar Bapuji Talpade and his wife gave a thrilling demonstration flight on the Chowpatty beach in Mumbai.

The machine attained a height of about 1500 feet and then automatically landed safely. The flight was witnessed, among many others, by Sir Sayajirao Gaekwad, the Maharaja of Baroda and Justice Govind Ranade and was reported in ?The Kesari? a leading Marathi daily newspaper. They were impressed by the feat and rewarded the talented inventor.

[/quote]

1500 feet?

I am going to need some references for this one.

[quote]BH6 wrote:

That would of course open a debate what “Austria” really is, but then I am having a hard time thinking of something uniquely American except Jazz, Baseball and Peanut butter.

The rest was heavily influenced by Europe.

Monster Trucks. I’ll give India the airplane, but good ole American rednecks invented the monster truck.
Goddamnit.

[/quote]

And hair in a can.

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:

1500 feet?

I am going to need some references for this one.[/quote]

Sure, here you go pal

http://www.deccanherald.com/deccanherald/dec16/snt2.asp

The Vedas were passed down orally for 3000 years and then finally written about 5000 years ago, making them around 8000 years old.

They speak of an advanced civilisation around the same time as the babylonians ruling over India and they had access to incredibly advanced technology, including nuclear weapons, it is stated that a nuclear war wiped them out and then came the great flood (which is mentioned in numerous other texts) which then led to rise of civilisation again, but in a primitive form.

It seemed a little far fetched until two major discoveries from 1980 onwards fueled this change of perception. The first one was actual mapping of now dead Saraswati River. This mapping took eight years, but was carried out by trained geographers using actual sediment samples and applying strict scientific techniques. If the mythical river Saraswati actually existed, then the entire mythology cannot be dismissed as mere stories.

The second sensational discovery was of an entire city sunk near Bet Dwarka. Though not completely proven as Krishna?s Dwarka, this sunken city confirms in many ways to the scriptural description of mythical Dwarka.

When the Rishi City of Mohenjodaro was excavated by archaeologists in the last century, they found skeletons just lying in the streets, some of them holding hands, as if some great doom had suddenly overtaken them. These skeletons are among the most radioactive ever found, on a par with those found at Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Ancient cities whose brick and stonewalls have literally been vitrified, that is-fused together, can be found in India, Ireland, Scotland, France, Turkey and other places. There is no logical explanation for the vitrification of stone forts and cities, except from an atomic blast.

Further more, at Mohenjo-Daro, a well planned city laid on a grid, with a plumbing system superior to those used in Pakistan and India today, the streets were littered with “black lumps of glass.” These globs of glass were discovered to be clay pots that had melted under intense heat!

These discoveries led to serious questioning of ancient Indian History as presented by Western researchers, where most books other than ancient treatises devoted to specific subjects, were categorized as mythology, theology, or scriptures.

There are thousands of sites talking about this , but the above link is the official, newspaper article that came up in the Deccan Herald.

[quote]nik19 wrote:

http://www.deccanherald.com/deccanherald/dec16/snt2.asp

The Vedas were passed down orally for 3000 years and then finally written about 5000 years ago, making them around 8000 years old.
…[/quote]

Wild stuff. I have heard some of this before. It a portion of it is true it is amazing.

Regarding the flight before the Wright Brothers, I had not noticed it was unmanned before.

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:

Wild stuff. I have heard some of this before. It a portion of it is true it is amazing.

Regarding the flight before the Wright Brothers, I had not noticed it was unmanned before.[/quote]

Yea, tell me about. The flight was unmanned I dont think I put that down in my first post… sorry.

Just to add to what I’ve already written

Shivkar Bapuji was funded by Maharaja Sayajirao of Vadodara in his research. It is debated whether he used the veda’s but it is claimed he referred to two ancient Sanskrit Books specifically devoted to making and maintenance of flying machines - namely Brihad Vaimanik Shastra by Rishi Bharadwaj and Vimana Bindu by Acharya Vachaspati.

These books about flying machines are similar to more famous works like Sushruta?s work on plastic surgery and Bhaskaracharya?s mathematical work "Lilawati " , which gave the world the concept of zero and the decimal system of counting.

Shivkar Bapuji used four mercury cylinders as described in Vaimanik Shastra, in a circular air frame .Once placed around a solar mercury boiler, this craft developed thunder-power through heated mercury, and could take off and travel large distances with ease. Interestingly NASA has been trying to develop an ion engine that uses high-velocity electrified particles to defy gravity, instead of a blast of hot gases used in current jet engines.

Shivkar Bapuji?s machine was circular and eerily similar to UFOs, as it used solar battery to heat mercury cylinders

Vaimanika Shastra gives a detailed description of such mercury vortex engine. After his successful demonstration in front of elite citizens like Sayajiraje of Vadodara and Justice Mahadeo Ranade, he needed further research to create a manned aircraft.

But then his research was hushed up by the British Government. His relatives had to sell off parts of his fabulous machine to salvage the money that they had put into his research. He passed away in 1916, unknown to world at large

Only after independence of India, his amazing story slowly began surfacing again. Mr. Ayyar, a photojournalist from Bangalore followed his story in 1995 and made his family donate Shivkar Bapuji’s notes and other manuscripts to Hindustan Aeronauticals Ltd.

Regarding the Vedas…

The Indian Emperor Ashoka started a “Secret Society of the Nine Unknown Men”: great Indian scientists who were supposed to catalogue the many sciences. Ashoka kept their work secret because he was afraid that the advanced science catalogued by these men, culled from ancient Indian sources, would be used for the evil purpose of war, which Ashoka was strongly against, having been converted to Buddhism after defeating a rival army in a bloody battle. The"Nine Unknown Men" wrote a total of nine books, presumably one each. Book number was “The Secrets of Gravitation!” This book, known to historians, but not actually seen by them dealt chiefly with “gravity control.”

It is presumably still around somewhere, kept in a secret library in India, Tibet or else where (perhaps even in North America somewhere). One can certainly understand Ashoka’s reasoning for wanting to keep such knowledge a secret, assuming it exists. Ashoka was also aware of devastating wars using such advanced vehicles and other “futuristic weapons” that had destroyed the ancient Indian “Rama Empire” several thousand years before.

Only a few years ago, the Chinese discovered some Sanskrit documents in Lhasa, Tibet and sent them to the University of Chandrigarh to be translated. Dr. Ruth Reyna of the University said recently that the documents contain directions for building interstellar spaceships! Their method of propulsion, she said, was “anti- gravitational” and was based upon a system analogous to that of “laghima,” the unknown power of the ego existing in man’s physiological makeup, “a centrifugal force strong enough tocounteract all gravitational pull.”

According to Hindu Yogis, it is this “laghima” which enables a person to levitate. Dr. Reyna said that on board these machines, which were called “Astras” by the text, the ancient Indians could have sent a detachment of men onto any planet,according to the document, which is thought to be thousands of years old.

Themanuscripts were also said to reveal the secret of “antima”; “the cap ofinvisibility” and “garima”; "how to become as heavy as a mountain of lead."Naturally, Indian scientists did not take the texts very seriously, but then became more positive about the value of them when the Chinese announced that they were including certain parts of the data for study in their spaceprogram!

This was one of the first instances of a government admitting to be researching anti-gravity. The manuscripts did not say definitely that interplanetary travel was evermade but did mention, of all things, a planned trip to the Moon, though it is not clear whether this trip was actually carried out.

The say the Dalai Lama now holds all the secrets.

[quote]olderguy wrote:

I’m with you 100% that the US makes mistakes. No doubt about it. But does anyone think that Europe would exist as it is today without the US involvement in WWII? Come on. Does Orion really think Austria has contributed more to world than the US. Let’s not act like Austria is kinda like Sweden historically. LOL. How many medical advances come from Austria? And is he really naive enough to think that if Austria had any pull in the world, they wouldn’t us it? And it’s not just him. It’s a riot. I just laugh at these people in meaningless countries taking shots at the US for doing things that their countries would be doing if they could. Plain and simple. I really think they are jealous.
[/quote]

They take these potshots because of people like you that call them, “Meaningless countries.” No European country has been meaningless.

The Austrians warred against Napoleon for many years, not too mention that whole Austria-Hungarian Empire that lasted for quite a while.

It’s all about time periods… and over the course of human history, I don’t think the US’s contributions can compare to any European country’s simply because we haven’t been around as an organized country for long enough.

I think you need to read up on World History some more. America is powerful now, but it may not always be so. And if they’re mad because America has ignored the opinion of the world for the last six years… well, they have a right to be.

[quote]Mufasa wrote:
It may be a fun idea to Day Dream about and to make your mind wander…

But the cumulative “Butterfly Effect” of America not existing defies comprehension.

We simply could not imagine what the World would actually be like.

Mufasa[/quote]

Exactly! Though it may be fun to speculate about this or that, we can’t really know.

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
olderguy wrote:

I’m with you 100% that the US makes mistakes. No doubt about it. But does anyone think that Europe would exist as it is today without the US involvement in WWII? Come on. Does Orion really think Austria has contributed more to world than the US. Let’s not act like Austria is kinda like Sweden historically. LOL. How many medical advances come from Austria? And is he really naive enough to think that if Austria had any pull in the world, they wouldn’t us it? And it’s not just him. It’s a riot. I just laugh at these people in meaningless countries taking shots at the US for doing things that their countries would be doing if they could. Plain and simple. I really think they are jealous.

They take these potshots because of people like you that call them, “Meaningless countries.” No European country has been meaningless.

The Austrians warred against Napoleon for many years, not too mention that whole Austria-Hungarian Empire that lasted for quite a while.

It’s all about time periods… and over the course of human history, I don’t think the US’s contributions can compare to any European country’s simply because we haven’t been around as an organized country for long enough.

I think you need to read up on World History some more. America is powerful now, but it may not always be so. And if they’re mad because America has ignored the opinion of the world for the last six years… well, they have a right to be.[/quote]

Hey Irish,

They can’t have it both ways. They can’t trash the US for what it is doing TODAY, and not want to talk about what it did to help Europe 50 yrs ago. Now they want to talk about what contributions Austria or Belgium or any other EU made 1000 to 50 years ago. Sorry, can’t have it both ways. You can’t trash the US for what it is doing now and only talk about the good things you’ve done in the past. We get zero credit. Screw them.

In the scheme of things, what they are doing today is meaningless, sorry. They are probably proficient arms dealers, but hey, I lack the education, clue me in.

[quote]olderguy wrote:

In the scheme of things, what they are doing today is meaningless, sorry. They are probably proficient arms dealers, but hey, I lack the education, clue me in.

[/quote]

We are.

When in trouble you want a Glock 9mm.

They may not be cheap, but they never let you down either.

[quote]Grimnuruk wrote:
Exactly! Though it may be fun to speculate about this or that, we can’t really know.[/quote]

You guys obviously didn’t watch that documentary “The Butterfly Effect”.

Just ask Ashton Kutcher. He knows.

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
olderguy wrote:

I’m with you 100% that the US makes mistakes. No doubt about it. But does anyone think that Europe would exist as it is today without the US involvement in WWII? Come on. Does Orion really think Austria has contributed more to world than the US. Let’s not act like Austria is kinda like Sweden historically. LOL. How many medical advances come from Austria? And is he really naive enough to think that if Austria had any pull in the world, they wouldn’t us it? And it’s not just him. It’s a riot. I just laugh at these people in meaningless countries taking shots at the US for doing things that their countries would be doing if they could. Plain and simple. I really think they are jealous.

They take these potshots because of people like you that call them, “Meaningless countries.” No European country has been meaningless.

The Austrians warred against Napoleon for many years, not too mention that whole Austria-Hungarian Empire that lasted for quite a while.

It’s all about time periods… and over the course of human history, I don’t think the US’s contributions can compare to any European country’s simply because we haven’t been around as an organized country for long enough.

I think you need to read up on World History some more. America is powerful now, but it may not always be so. And if they’re mad because America has ignored the opinion of the world for the last six years… well, they have a right to be.[/quote]

You can’t be saying that we should have listened to France, Germany, and Russia, about Iraq. Weren’t there some oil deals going on that might have swayed their opinion?