T Nation

A Workout Suitable for Me? I Want EVERYTHING

Goals- getting in “military shape” while maintaining (if not gaining) muscle.

Sups- Metablolic drive. HOT-ROX Extreme. I actually got the HOT-ROX for the Carbolin 19 in it to help keep hard earned muscle.

It’s not like I have a whole lot of “ugly fat” to lose or anything… But I’m definitely not in the single digit percentage as of right now and isn’t that where everyone wants to be?

I use german micronized creatine in the suggested small does after every workout. And I also take L Arginine before every workout. I also take a multivitamin.

Current plan (spaced out gradual improvement in 3 areas. Strength (weightlifting), PT exercises (pushups, pullups, bw. squats, dips, muscle ups, burpees) and last, but not least, my long distance running times.

I know long distance running is generally looked down on in the T-Nation community due to its potential catabolic effects on our bodies.

I’d like for you guys to check out my current training program, and add things that you think might make it better or more productive or even add spice to it… I’m not joining the military until Summer is near over. So I’ve got a while to tweak and work with this. But this is what I’ve produced so far.

Monday- (Weight training day) Please don’t harharhar too much. I haven’t been lifting in a while.

Starts off with 1set of 5 reps on each exercise

deadlift (165 lbs.)

Back squat (165 lbs.)

Clean and press (95 lbs.)

(Every time this workout rolls around. I’ll be adding 5 reps, till I reach 15 reps of the current work load. Then I add 10 lbs. to each load And take the reps back down to 5 and repeat the cycle again till i get to 15 reps again at the new and slightly heavier workload. Until I’m HYUUUUUGGGEE)

Tuesday- Rest

Wednesday- PT circuit.

5 bw. squats, 3 pushups, 1 pullup. (that’s one round) Repeat for as many rounds as possible. It’s a non-stop session moving from one exercise to the other.

(I will likely start around 20 rounds or so.) The first time I tried it I got through 17 rounds and I was out of breath but I still had some gas in the tank. 20 is a good starting place.

Thursday- Rest

Friday- Long distance run. Starting time length. 5 minutes. Every time friday rolls around. I’ll be adding on +2 minutes to each workout. This is just to get my wind back up. I’ve been smoking for a while. And I’m finally ready to quit. I have greater things in mind than having to rely on handicapped parking later just because I didn’t give up the habit while I was young.

Saturday- Rest

Sunday- Rest

(summary)

I want to have everything! I think I read a recent article… That said I couldn’t. Hahah. But I think in VERRRRYYY GRADUAL steps. I think I can. I’ve got a long time to tweak this workout. If you guys see any problems with it. Any info is much appreciated.

Thanks and God bless.

S.S.

P.S. If you guys can scrap together a “de-loading” week or something like that for when I start to plateau that’d be great!

I may even throw in an "off week) every 8 weeks or so. The 9th week could be an off week. And the tenth could be a “test week” To test my developed strength. I dunno… I’ll just have to see how all this goes!

Thanks again!

Bump??

Good god, where to start.

You’re overcomplicating things. If you really want to gain strength, one day of lifting a week is not going to cut it. Also, you progress method is ass. Seriously. Now for the constructive part. Most of your bodyweight exercises are high rep, low weight versions of real lifts. Want a better bodyweight squat? Bring up your back squat. If I were you, I’d do 5/3/1 with some bodyweight assistance. That will bring up your strength and endurance, and give you a much more rounded workout then the one you’ve posted. Or pick your favorite strength program, and just add some bodyweight assistance. If you aren’t lifting heavy weights at least 3 times a week, you’ll have a very hard time getting stronger. Personally, I like a 4 day split, with cardio on one or two of the off days. If you want to make distance running part of that, go nuts. If you really want to get to single digit bodyfat (which at 165lbs seems like a stupid thing to focus on), make sure your diet is in check. There’s no reason you can’t get in all around good shape, just don’t expect to be top notch in it all. It’s easy to get relatively big, lean, and strong, but it’s real damn hard to get impressively big, strong, or lean without sacrificing something.

Also, congrats on posting something so of kilter that I stopped lurking.

it would be easier to help if you made some goals more specific than “everything”.

[quote]ninjaboy wrote:
Good god, where to start.

You’re overcomplicating things. If you really want to gain strength, one day of lifting a week is not going to cut it. Also, you progress method is ass. Seriously. Now for the constructive part. Most of your bodyweight exercises are high rep, low weight versions of real lifts. Want a better bodyweight squat? Bring up your back squat. If I were you, I’d do 5/3/1 with some bodyweight assistance. That will bring up your strength and endurance, and give you a much more rounded workout then the one you’ve posted. Or pick your favorite strength program, and just add some bodyweight assistance. If you aren’t lifting heavy weights at least 3 times a week, you’ll have a very hard time getting stronger. Personally, I like a 4 day split, with cardio on one or two of the off days. If you want to make distance running part of that, go nuts. If you really want to get to single digit bodyfat (which at 165lbs seems like a stupid thing to focus on), make sure your diet is in check. There’s no reason you can’t get in all around good shape, just don’t expect to be top notch in it all. It’s easy to get relatively big, lean, and strong, but it’s real damn hard to get impressively big, strong, or lean without sacrificing something.

Also, congrats on posting something so of kilter that I stopped lurking.[/quote]

I understand that concept. Of all or nothing in one area to get the best of that area. Like strength. 5,3,1 or even a 5x5 would be better. Far better than what I’ve created. But do you see any potential for REAL long term improvement with the stair stepping system that I’m conjuring? Bump up reps first. Then, decrease reps and bump up weight? Surely I’m not the first to think of it like this. But since it sucks ass as far as the weightlifting goes… The PT is all “bodyweight only” for a reason. And I’ve tried similar things like this in the past and my pullups skyrocketed as well as my pushups. I was able to do 62 pushups in one minute and 18 pullups (in a row, from a dead hang) on a program similar to the PT circuit I’ve designed. So I’m fairly confident in upping pushups and pullups. I may throw some dips in there as well. Since I’m not doing a bench press on weight day, a set or two of dips on PT day will have to suffice. Hmmm…

As for the running bit? Does adding two minutes every workout sound okay as a progression goal? Should it be more? Less? Should I do sprints? Will tabatas help? WTF? LOL ROFLWAFFLES

But srsly. Thanks man. And since my big lifts are starting small… I think this will be sort of like… A nervous system awakening going on before the weight I’m lifting even gets “kind of” serious. I mean… If I progress with this program. I’ll be squatting more than I ever have my whole life by the end of it. And I think keeping it on pace with my deads will allow for less muscle imbalance, even though I can dead a lot more than I can squat. It will also allow me to work on technique.

Okay so I complicate things for sure. But I can still use some more ideas. I’m still trying to figure out what a deloading/testing week would look like.

What’s the likely hood of me recovering enough week to week on my weight lifting day to have enough strength to up it 5 reps or add 10 lbs and lift the next week? I think that’s the main question for me as far as my weight day goes. I definitely think I’ll recover fast enough. Especially since I’ll have a day off b4 the PT. A day off after the PT. And then 2 days off after the run. It should be plenty for my muscles to re-cooperate.

[quote]StrongSurvive wrote:
But do you see any potential for REAL long term improvement with the stair stepping system that I’m conjuring? Bump up reps first. Then, decrease reps and bump up weight? Surely I’m not the first to think of it like this. But since it sucks ass as far as the weightlifting goes…[/quote]
Honestly, I don’t really see any potential for improvement with your progression scheme, at least as far as strength goes and here’s why. If you want to see strength gains, you need to be working with relatively heavy loads. If you are doing a 5 rep set, you should by using a weight you can only lift 6 or 7 times. With your progression, if you pick a weight heavy enough to cause effective strength gains, there should be no way for you to suddenly do 10 reps with that same weight the next week. Also, your volume is to low to really force your body to adapt. Seriously, if you want to see any meaningful strength gains, you need to a. working on strength more then once a week, and b. doing multiple sets of 3-5 reps for each exercise. If you want to progress in reps, then add weight and reset your rep count, try doing 5x4 your first week, 5x5 your second week and 5x6 your third week, or take the 531 approach of going for reps on your last set. Don’t make your jumps so big.

I don’t have a problem with bodyweight only, especially if your goal is to get better at bodyweight exercises. However, giving them a whole day in place of strength training is not the best way to work them in to your program. You’ll see better results over all if you add them as assistance exercises after your strength workouts, as this will allow you to work on both your strength and pt goals more often. For example, you could do a set of 5x5 bench press on one day, followed by pullups and pushups for reps.

If your goal is distance running, then your origonal plan sounds fine. If you want to run as a method of conditioning, hill sprints and intervals are a better way to go. It really depends on your goals.

[quote]But srsly. Thanks man. And since my big lifts are starting small… I think this will be sort of like… A nervous system awakening going on before the weight I’m lifting even gets “kind of” serious. I mean… If I progress with this program. I’ll be squatting more than I ever have my whole life by the end of it. And I think keeping it on pace with my deads will allow for less muscle imbalance, even though I can dead a lot more than I can squat. It will also allow me to work on technique.

Okay so I complicate things for sure. But I can still use some more ideas. I’m still trying to figure out what a deloading/testing week would look like.[/quote]
I seriously doubt you’ll see any real gains with the way your program is currently structured. You aren’t doing enough reps to really even improve your technique with any speed. Also, you’re a beginner, stop worrying about CNS efficency improvement vs increased muscle strength, just take your gains as the come, since both areas should improve as you lift. Also, your current program has you lifting once per week, with no real volume, you don’t need a deload week, you aren’t going to overtrain, you’re hardly training! Seriously, pick a pre-made strength program and tweak it to include your running and PT goals. Make sure your diet is spot on if you want to loss fat. For testing and deloading, follow the guidelines of whatever program you chose.

As I said above, I don’t think recovery will be an issue. If you’re really lifting hard, you won’t be able to add 5 reps to your set the next week with the same weight, if you can, you did not use a heavy enough load the first week. However, you should be able to add 1 rep per set, or maybe 5 lbs to your working weight. Again, your program is really not suited to strength gains. Honestly, recovery should not be an issue, you aren’t really doing much with 1 day of poorly designed strength work, some bodyweight work, and some running.

Day 1: Strength Training
Day 2: Distance Running
Day 3: PT Exercises
Day 4: Off

Repeat.

[quote]ninjaboy wrote:
StrongSurvive wrote:
But do you see any potential for REAL long term improvement with the stair stepping system that I’m conjuring? Bump up reps first. Then, decrease reps and bump up weight? Surely I’m not the first to think of it like this. But since it sucks ass as far as the weightlifting goes…
Honestly, I don’t really see any potential for improvement with your progression scheme, at least as far as strength goes and here’s why. If you want to see strength gains, you need to be working with relatively heavy loads. If you are doing a 5 rep set, you should by using a weight you can only lift 6 or 7 times. With your progression, if you pick a weight heavy enough to cause effective strength gains, there should be no way for you to suddenly do 10 reps with that same weight the next week. Also, your volume is to low to really force your body to adapt. Seriously, if you want to see any meaningful strength gains, you need to a. working on strength more then once a week, and b. doing multiple sets of 3-5 reps for each exercise. If you want to progress in reps, then add weight and reset your rep count, try doing 5x4 your first week, 5x5 your second week and 5x6 your third week, or take the 531 approach of going for reps on your last set. Don’t make your jumps so big.
The PT is all “bodyweight only” for a reason. And I’ve tried similar things like this in the past and my pullups skyrocketed as well as my pushups. I was able to do 62 pushups in one minute and 18 pullups (in a row, from a dead hang) on a program similar to the PT circuit I’ve designed. So I’m fairly confident in upping pushups and pullups. I may throw some dips in there as well. Since I’m not doing a bench press on weight day, a set or two of dips on PT day will have to suffice. Hmmm…
I don’t have a problem with bodyweight only, especially if your goal is to get better at bodyweight exercises. However, giving them a whole day in place of strength training is not the best way to work them in to your program. You’ll see better results over all if you add them as assistance exercises after your strength workouts, as this will allow you to work on both your strength and pt goals more often. For example, you could do a set of 5x5 bench press on one day, followed by pullups and pushups for reps.

As for the running bit? Does adding two minutes every workout sound okay as a progression goal? Should it be more? Less? Should I do sprints? Will tabatas help? WTF? LOL ROFLWAFFLES

If your goal is distance running, then your origonal plan sounds fine. If you want to run as a method of conditioning, hill sprints and intervals are a better way to go. It really depends on your goals.
But srsly. Thanks man. And since my big lifts are starting small… I think this will be sort of like… A nervous system awakening going on before the weight I’m lifting even gets “kind of” serious. I mean… If I progress with this program. I’ll be squatting more than I ever have my whole life by the end of it. And I think keeping it on pace with my deads will allow for less muscle imbalance, even though I can dead a lot more than I can squat. It will also allow me to work on technique.

Okay so I complicate things for sure. But I can still use some more ideas. I’m still trying to figure out what a deloading/testing week would look like.
I seriously doubt you’ll see any real gains with the way your program is currently structured. You aren’t doing enough reps to really even improve your technique with any speed. Also, you’re a beginner, stop worrying about CNS efficency improvement vs increased muscle strength, just take your gains as the come, since both areas should improve as you lift. Also, your current program has you lifting once per week, with no real volume, you don’t need a deload week, you aren’t going to overtrain, you’re hardly training! Seriously, pick a pre-made strength program and tweak it to include your running and PT goals. Make sure your diet is spot on if you want to loss fat. For testing and deloading, follow the guidelines of whatever program you chose.

What’s the likely hood of me recovering enough week to week on my weight lifting day to have enough strength to up it 5 reps or add 10 lbs and lift the next week? I think that’s the main question for me as far as my weight day goes. I definitely think I’ll recover fast enough. Especially since I’ll have a day off b4 the PT. A day off after the PT. And then 2 days off after the run. It should be plenty for my muscles to re-cooperate.

As I said above, I don’t think recovery will be an issue. If you’re really lifting hard, you won’t be able to add 5 reps to your set the next week with the same weight, if you can, you did not use a heavy enough load the first week. However, you should be able to add 1 rep per set, or maybe 5 lbs to your working weight. Again, your program is really not suited to strength gains. Honestly, recovery should not be an issue, you aren’t really doing much with 1 day of poorly designed strength work, some bodyweight work, and some running.

[/quote]

The program isn’t really about strength gains. It’s more about getting back to where I once was in all 3 areas. Slowly. Instead of trying to get there fast and possibly injuring myself. Don’t taze me bro. I think I’ll at least give it 2 months and see where it takes me. But do you see any muscle groups or movements I am missing? Thanks man.

[quote]The Contender wrote:
Day 1: Strength Training
Day 2: Distance Running
Day 3: PT Exercises
Day 4: Off

Repeat.[/quote]

Specifically in that order?

[quote]StrongSurvive wrote:
ninjaboy wrote:
StrongSurvive wrote:
The program isn’t really about strength gains. It’s more about getting back to where I once was in all 3 areas. Slowly. Instead of trying to get there fast and possibly injuring myself. Don’t taze me bro. I think I’ll at least give it 2 months and see where it takes me. But do you see any muscle groups or movements I am missing? Thanks man.[/quote]
Hey, go for it. If it works, great, if not, well at least you’ve learned something. As far as muscle groups missing, you’re only doing squats, deads, and cleans. I would at least add bench, some direct arm work, ab work, and maybe some single leg work.

[quote]StrongSurvive wrote:
Specifically in that order?[/quote]

Yes.

Do the strength training when the muscles are freshest, allowing you to progress most rapidly. The distance running the following day is aerobically intensive rather than being hard on the muscles, affording them some rest. They should be fine for some light endurance training the next day provided you don’t go overboard with the volume on Strength day. Then you get a day’s rest.

This way you’re progressing on all fronts twice a week rather than once a week. Hence, more progress is being made.

[quote]The Contender wrote:
StrongSurvive wrote:
Specifically in that order?

Yes.

Do the strength training when the muscles are freshest, allowing you to progress most rapidly. The distance running the following day is aerobically intensive rather than being hard on the muscles, affording them some rest. They should be fine for some light endurance training the next day provided you don’t go overboard with the volume on Strength day. Then you get a day’s rest.

This way you’re progressing on all fronts twice a week rather than once a week. Hence, more progress is being made. [/quote]

Damn. That sounds good. Thanks.

Edit: Actually, I’m rethinking this plan. I will only have one full rest day per week which will allow for poor recovery on my lifts.

For instance. Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, (Thursday rest), Friday, Saturday, Sunday, and the cycle begins with Lifting on monday.

And although while running is aerobic it’s still a strain on the muscles… And it will be so ESPECIALLY as the runs increase in distance. So… Any better options?

Supplement suggestions? Beta 7, Cabolin 19… ?

[quote]ninjaboy wrote:
StrongSurvive wrote:
ninjaboy wrote:
StrongSurvive wrote:
The program isn’t really about strength gains. It’s more about getting back to where I once was in all 3 areas. Slowly. Instead of trying to get there fast and possibly injuring myself. Don’t taze me bro. I think I’ll at least give it 2 months and see where it takes me. But do you see any muscle groups or movements I am missing? Thanks man.
Hey, go for it. If it works, great, if not, well at least you’ve learned something. As far as muscle groups missing, you’re only doing squats, deads, and cleans. I would at least add bench, some direct arm work, ab work, and maybe some single leg work.
[/quote]

Hmmm… Okay. This is good. This is giving me some great ideas. Thanks!

Can’t help you on the supplement front, all I take is some extra protein.

Good luck with your efforts,

[quote]StrongSurvive wrote:
Edit: Actually, I’m rethinking this plan. I will only have one full rest day per week which will allow for poor recovery on my lifts.

For instance. Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, (Thursday rest), Friday, Saturday, Sunday, and the cycle begins with Lifting on monday.

And although while running is aerobic it’s still a strain on the muscles… And it will be so ESPECIALLY as the runs increase in distance. So… Any better options?[/quote]

Yes, stop over thinking this.

There is no such thing as a perfect program. You’re always going to have trade-offs, especially when you are trying to improve so many things at once.

Besides, many athletes weight train and run more often than what was recommended and still make good progress, so I don’t think this is an issue.

WS4SB, look the 3rd version up on joe defrancos website, and where it says conditioning you run, long distance steady state running, if your not cardio fit start out small, a mile say, then just build it up til you can run alot of miles, oh and if you work out a mile’s distance from your house make sure you factor in the run home or else your fucked and you will have to walk home like john wayne.

Dude, c’mon. If you want everything, you’re gonna have to put in more time than that.

Do your calisthenics every morning (no excuses, get your ass up). Then do strength training in the afternoons, at least three days a week. After your strength training (on non-leg days), do your distance running.

[quote]StrongSurvive wrote:
The Contender wrote:
StrongSurvive wrote:
Specifically in that order?

Edit: Actually, I’m rethinking this plan. I will only have one full rest day per week which will allow for poor recovery on my lifts.

For instance. Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, (Thursday rest), Friday, Saturday, Sunday, and the cycle begins with Lifting on monday.

And although while running is aerobic it’s still a strain on the muscles… And it will be so ESPECIALLY as the runs increase in distance. So… Any better options?

Supplement suggestions? Beta 7, Cabolin 19… ?

[/quote]
Look, you need to stop worrying about overtraining. Yes, running and PT will fatigue your muscles, but the won’t cause the kind of micro-trauma that lifting would cause. You simply are not loading the muscle enough to cause that kind of overload. Hell, a lot of the guys on here lift heavy 4-6 times a week without any negative effects. If you’re really worried about recovery, eat an extra steak, get some extra sleep, and roam roll or get a massage. You don’t need sups, you need to man up, hit the weights hard(3-4 times a week), add your PT in afterward, and run on one or two of your off days. You aren’t going to burn out if you gradually increase your work load on everything (5lbs a week to your lifts, extra reps for your PT, extra time for your run), instead you’ll increase your strength, increase your endurance, increase your LBM, increase your work capacity, increase your recovery capacity, and lose fat if your diet is good.

I would do a real basic lifting program, like 5x5 or 5/3/1 for the big lifts. And then do PT shit for assistance. PT pyramids got my pushup and situp numbers up better than anything. For example, do 1 pullup, 3 pushups, and 5 situps. Then do 2, 6, 10. Then 3, 9, 15.

Keep doing that til you fit failure on one of the exercises, then pyramid back down. For lower-body assistance, you could use the workout I hit my first sub 6-minute mile doing. You run a quarter mile at your goal pace, then do 10-20 bodyweight squats. Run another quarter mile, then 10-20 lunges.

Repeat until you either can’t meet your goal pace or complete the repetitions, or hit a predetermined distance. My biggest problem was that when I focused on my PT, I really neglected my weight training. Don’t do that.

[quote]StrongSurvive wrote:
The Contender wrote:
StrongSurvive wrote:
Specifically in that order?

Yes.

Do the strength training when the muscles are freshest, allowing you to progress most rapidly. The distance running the following day is aerobically intensive rather than being hard on the muscles, affording them some rest. They should be fine for some light endurance training the next day provided you don’t go overboard with the volume on Strength day. Then you get a day’s rest.

This way you’re progressing on all fronts twice a week rather than once a week. Hence, more progress is being made.

Damn. That sounds good. Thanks.

Edit: Actually, I’m rethinking this plan. I will only have one full rest day per week which will allow for poor recovery on my lifts.

For instance. Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, (Thursday rest), Friday, Saturday, Sunday, and the cycle begins with Lifting on monday.

And although while running is aerobic it’s still a strain on the muscles… And it will be so ESPECIALLY as the runs increase in distance. So… Any better options?

Supplement suggestions? Beta 7, Cabolin 19… ?

[/quote]

for the past 2 weeks ive been doing 2 hours of cardio a day, lifting weights 4 days a week, and on a calorie deficit and the cardio has yet to have an effect on my strength or my recovery, unless your eating 1 meal a day consisting of pop tarts and coke you should be fine, only supplement you need is lots of food.