T Nation

A T-Nation Challenge

While perusing the older articles (this one being “The Training Split Roundtable”), I stumbled upon a comment from ‘CaliforniaLaw’"

"The only way to settle the debate is this: Build two groups of people. Put one group on a TBT program. Put the other on a split-based program. At the end of 16 weeks, see who looks better.

My money is on this: The TBT people will have better PC development and blockier appearances, where as the split-based people will have more aesthetically pleasing physiques.

Maybe T-Nation should start a challenge and settle this debate once and for all."

Okay, I’m just saying, I think this is a helluva idea, and should be looked into. It would make for a very nice Transformation Series of sorts.

(As an aside, I think it would be best to take on only intermediates, as I think this would be who the average T-Nation reader could identify with)

too many variables

While I think that such a challenge would be a great motivational tool for the participants and definitely interesting for the observers and fanboys of either style, I hardly think that it would “settle” anything “once and for all.”

There’s so many variable to consider that as soon as the competition is done, no matter what the outcome, people will critique and criticize every little detail should the outcome not fit into what they believe the best training style is. It would give one side some bragging rights for a week or two, but ultimately I don’t think it would change anyone’s mind.

Still, I’d pay attention/participate for no other reason than curiosity/motivation.

I love this idea, I thought about writing up a challenge kind of like this once, except in my idea, the group of guys that had been doing TBT for a while would switch to a split routine, and the split routine people would switch to full body for a while.

Im always up for a challenge, the race to 200 thread from last summer went along way in helping me bulk.

–JB

You know what training method is more widely accepted as the best? The one a person currently is on. Some need others to validate their feelings. Acceptance defines them.

Alrighty. I am up for it. Its always nice to go in on something with other people.

I have been doing both throughout my lifting career and recently I have gained a little bit too much fat and lost muscle because of school.

I will be doing Bill Starrs 5x5 program 3 days a week. I will have other athletic activities as well including soccer, basketball, swimming, and the occasional workout with someone else that will not be bill starrs 5x5.

Stats 192 lbs 5’11 unsure body fat-top ab visible but not good
80x5 lbs 45 degree incline dumbell bench
165x2 power clean
225 squat(unsure reps)

I will be doing this most likely until June which is 8 weeks away but possibly more

isn’t there a splits vs tbt gains challenge thread on this website?

Im with the guy who said there are too many variables.

Jack might be able to grow just by looking at the weights, whereas jim has to consume twice as many calories as Jack.

Maybe if there were some twins that have maintained the same height, weight, and body composition then we could perhaps use them.

Even genetic twins respond differently, my sisters are twins and after 23 years one is allergic to corn, go figure. One gains weight easier, while the other remains smaller easier.

I think it would be a great challenge - however i just don’t see the results being all that accurate.

Lots of variables, but I bet it could be done. We would need some smart minds behind it though.

It’s true that there are a lot of variables. The choice would be subjective, but if you established some guidelines I think you could reduce the subjectivity.

  1. Need to gather equal number of participants for the opposing sides.

  2. Need to gather a group of judges who DO NOT KNOW if a given participant is Split or TB.

  3. Need to agree on judging parameters, i.e. bicep size, chest definition, etc.
    I suggest that there be a limited number of these parameters, say, 4 or 5.

  4. Obviously need participants to provide before and after picks from agreed upon angles.

  5. A limitation (or complete elimination) of supplements during contest period. Obviously there will be differences in diet as there will be differences in genetics…Dont see much you can do about eliminating those variables. Also, all of this is predicated on the truthfullness of the contestants.

Perhaps others can build upon (or criticize) my list.

I think supplements such as whey and creatine(cheap) should be allowed. everyone seemingly has at least those two supplements

let it go…turn the page!

Im game id love to do it!Some ideas for the things we would judge on

1.strength
2.Look/aesthetics
3.Body fat%
4.% of weight gained as muscle if bulking.
5.Waist size (group with smallest sized waists)
6.Total weight (which group has the most muscle)
7.Work capcity(it would be bitch to measure)

[quote]jp_dubya wrote:
You know what training method is more widely accepted as the best? The one a person currently is on. Some need others to validate their feelings. Acceptance defines them.[/quote]

Much truth in that statement.

[quote]powersavant wrote:
While perusing the older articles (this one being “The Training Split Roundtable”), I stumbled upon a comment from ‘CaliforniaLaw’"

"The only way to settle the debate is this: Build two groups of people. Put one group on a TBT program. Put the other on a split-based program. At the end of 16 weeks, see who looks better.

My money is on this: The TBT people will have better PC development and blockier appearances, where as the split-based people will have more aesthetically pleasing physiques.

Maybe T-Nation should start a challenge and settle this debate once and for all."

Okay, I’m just saying, I think this is a helluva idea, and should be looked into. It would make for a very nice Transformation Series of sorts.

(As an aside, I think it would be best to take on only intermediates, as I think this would be who the average T-Nation reader could identify with)[/quote]

split is better. end thread

[quote]That One Guy wrote:
isn’t there a splits vs tbt gains challenge thread on this website?[/quote]

Yes there is, I issued one and no one has challenged. The 6 month period came and went and my gains/progress were posted for anyone to challenge.

http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1300566

In a sense, the “contest” has been had. On the split side there are thousands of bodybuilders (pro and backyard types). On the other side there is…

…well, that pretty much ends that.

[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
In a sense, the “contest” has been had. On the split side there are thousands of bodybuilders (pro and backyard types). On the other side there is…

…well, that pretty much ends that.[/quote]

I will second that notion.

[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
In a sense, the “contest” has been had. On the split side there are thousands of bodybuilders (pro and backyard types). On the other side there is…
[/quote]

Thousands of athletes and fitness enthusiasts who employ full body workouts.

i think this is a great idea

-no, it wont necessarily be accurate, and it probably wont be very controlled, or decisive, but it would be motivating, fun, and a good little experiment

(and i’m a geek but i find it cool when people can organize themselves without having to have someone watch over them and accomplish a common task together)

anyways, it’d be cool to be a part of something like this anyways, so if it is going to happen, i’ll consider going in for the bill starrs (but i’ll be doing more of an olympic version)

(ps, just feeling kind of bad having read the dine in hell article, and i find its things like this that tend to bring people together, and have more of a community feel and make a forum better
(i feel stupid because i havnt been a member long, but all forums are the same and have these troubles after enough years))

-all in all , i find it’ll be good for T-Nation if we can work together and take some initiative