T Nation

A Serious Question About Faith

Ok, let me first start off by saying I am not a Christian-basher like some on the forum. Although I am non-religious, my folks are Christians and quite staunch believers as well so I wouldn’t dream of disparaging Christianity just to “troll”. Its not how I roll.

I’d just like to ask the Christians here about the concept of “faith” from the Biblical standpoint.

In all honesty, I think the concept of “Faith” doesn’t make much sense at all even when you look at it through the rose-tinted glasses of the Bible. Ever notice how some of the most “faithful” heroes of the Bible weren’t actually called to be as “Faithful” as your average Christian?

Abraham saw angels a minimum of twice before being “tested”.
Moses saw a burning bush in the desert and God actually appears and has a little chat with him.
Samuel heard the voice of God.
Peter and the 12 apostles travelled with Jesus and saw an assortment of numerous miracles including the raising of the dead on two occasions (and even then they still disowned him).
Paul/Saul was murdering christians before he had a vision on the road to Damascus, went blind and was healed by a prophet.

Why do you think it is it that all these great Christian characters had the luxury of a personal and gripping encounter with “God” or his agents (Angels) yet ordinary Joe Schmoe has to believe or not based on hearsay and a Book that’s been revised several hundred times in the last 1000 years?

Suffice to say, if you take the most belligerent anti-Christian fanatic on this board, and tonight he gets a “Paul experience” while he was driving down the road, wouldn’t you say there’s a more than fair chance he’d be a convert tomorrow?

Another example would be if I told you I had a magic 8-ball that could predict tomorrow’s lotto numbers. You’d probably (correctly) scoff, unless I did it infront of your eyes and really won tomorrow - then you’d probably be a lot less sceptical. And even the odds of a magic lotto-predicting 8-ball would be more logical than a creator god for which no real evidence exists.

So would I be wrong in questioning the logic of “faith”?

[quote]NotaQuitta wrote:
Ok, let me first start off by saying I am not a Christian-basher like some on the forum. Although I am non-religious, my folks are Christians and quite staunch believers as well so I wouldn’t dream of disparaging Christianity just to “troll”. Its not how I roll.

I’d just like to ask the Christians here about the concept of “faith” from the Biblical standpoint.

In all honesty, I think the concept of “Faith” doesn’t make much sense at all even when you look at it through the rose-tinted glasses of the Bible. Ever notice how some of the most “faithful” heroes of the Bible weren’t actually called to be as “Faithful” as your average Christian?

Abraham saw angels a minimum of twice before being “tested”.
Moses saw a burning bush in the desert and God actually appears and has a little chat with him.
Samuel heard the voice of God.
Peter and the 12 apostles travelled with Jesus and saw an assortment of numerous miracles including the raising of the dead on two occasions (and even then they still disowned him).
Paul/Saul was murdering christians before he had a vision on the road to Damascus, went blind and was healed by a prophet.

Why do you think it is it that all these great Christian characters had the luxury of a personal and gripping encounter with “God” or his agents (Angels) yet ordinary Joe Schmoe has to believe or not based on hearsay and a Book that’s been revised several hundred times in the last 1000 years?

Suffice to say, if you take the most belligerent anti-Christian fanatic on this board, and tonight he gets a “Paul experience” while he was driving down the road, wouldn’t you say there’s a more than fair chance he’d be a convert tomorrow?

Another example would be if I told you I had a magic 8-ball that could predict tomorrow’s lotto numbers. You’d probably (correctly) scoff, unless I did it infront of your eyes and really won tomorrow - then you’d probably be a lot less sceptical. And even the odds of a magic lotto-predicting 8-ball would be more logical than a creator god for which no real evidence exists.

So would I be wrong in questioning the logic of “faith”?[/quote]

Well, first off, biblical texts are amazing un altered back as far as with 20 years or so of the actual time of Jesus.

The only thing I would say is that with knowledge comes responsibility. The less you have to take on faith, the more responsible you are for your own actions. If you actually had god stand before you, what excuse would you have for sinning? What would you have to do with your life to fulfill that responsibility of knowing? Sell everything and run around trying to convince everyone? What would honestly become of your life if you met god? Do you really want that? Lots of those biblical figures had much harder lives (and deaths) because of it. Would you even believe it anyway? Probability would suggest it more likely someone had slipped you LSD or you had a psychotic break.

Everything we do in life is based on faith to some degree. Faith your leg will catch you when you fall forward walking, faith that the sun is coming up in the morning, faith that the eggs you ate for breakfast weren’t giving you salmonella, faith that science and medicine are right when your mom starts chemo. Faith is a natural part of being human, why should spirituality be different?

[quote]NotaQuitta wrote:

In all honesty, I think the concept of “Faith” doesn’t make much sense at all even when you look at it through the rose-tinted glasses of the Bible. Ever notice how some of the most “faithful” heroes of the Bible weren’t actually called to be as “Faithful” as your average Christian?

Suffice to say, if you take the most belligerent anti-Christian fanatic on this board, and tonight he gets a “Paul experience” while he was driving down the road, wouldn’t you say there’s a more than fair chance he’d be a convert tomorrow?

So would I be wrong in questioning the logic of “faith”?[/quote]

Faith is a trap set by those who want to rule you, using your own fear of using your own judgment.

Why am I doin this to myself?

[quote]NotaQuitta wrote:<<< Why do you think it is it that all these great Christian characters had the luxury of a personal and gripping encounter with “God” or his agents (Angels) yet ordinary Joe Schmoe has to believe or not based on hearsay and a Book that’s been revised several hundred times in the last 1000 years? >>>[/quote]That is not a luxury and I wouldn’t trade my living relationship with the living God for every temporal experience in the bible combined.[quote]NotaQuitta wrote:<<< Suffice to say, if you take the most belligerent anti-Christian fanatic on this board, and tonight he gets a “Paul experience” while he was driving down the road, wouldn’t you say there’s a more than fair chance he’d be a convert tomorrow? >>>[/quote]No. I’d say there is ZERO chance of him becoming a believer unless he is first raised from death in sin to life in Christ. The bible has examples of this too.[quote]NotaQuitta wrote:<<< So would I be wrong in questioning the logic of “faith”?[/quote]You can question whatever you want. Human logic is the finite reflection of the divine mind and there’s nuthin wrong with it in itself. It simply does not function correctly until surrender to the God who is Himself it’s source and origin. We’ve been over and over and over this.

[quote]NotaQuitta wrote:
Ok, let me first start off by saying I am not a Christian-basher like some on the forum. Although I am non-religious, my folks are Christians and quite staunch believers as well so I wouldn’t dream of disparaging Christianity just to “troll”. Its not how I roll.

I’d just like to ask the Christians here about the concept of “faith” from the Biblical standpoint.

In all honesty, I think the concept of “Faith” doesn’t make much sense at all even when you look at it through the rose-tinted glasses of the Bible. Ever notice how some of the most “faithful” heroes of the Bible weren’t actually called to be as “Faithful” as your average Christian?

Abraham saw angels a minimum of twice before being “tested”.
Moses saw a burning bush in the desert and God actually appears and has a little chat with him.
Samuel heard the voice of God.
Peter and the 12 apostles travelled with Jesus and saw an assortment of numerous miracles including the raising of the dead on two occasions (and even then they still disowned him).
Paul/Saul was murdering christians before he had a vision on the road to Damascus, went blind and was healed by a prophet.

Why do you think it is it that all these great Christian characters had the luxury of a personal and gripping encounter with “God” or his agents (Angels) yet ordinary Joe Schmoe has to believe or not based on hearsay and a Book that’s been revised several hundred times in the last 1000 years?

Suffice to say, if you take the most belligerent anti-Christian fanatic on this board, and tonight he gets a “Paul experience” while he was driving down the road, wouldn’t you say there’s a more than fair chance he’d be a convert tomorrow?

Another example would be if I told you I had a magic 8-ball that could predict tomorrow’s lotto numbers. You’d probably (correctly) scoff, unless I did it infront of your eyes and really won tomorrow - then you’d probably be a lot less sceptical. And even the odds of a magic lotto-predicting 8-ball would be more logical than a creator god for which no real evidence exists.

So would I be wrong in questioning the logic of “faith”?[/quote]

Something tells me this is an alter ego, I detect a linguistic style similarity to somebody else, I just cannot pin down who…

Oh, an chalk up yet another religious thread started by an atheist. Why are atheists so interested in God? I wish more Christians were as interested in God as these atheists are.

[quote]NotaQuitta wrote:
Ok, let me first start off by saying I am not a Christian-basher like some on the forum. Although I am non-religious, my folks are Christians and quite staunch believers as well so I wouldn’t dream of disparaging Christianity just to “troll”. Its not how I roll.

I’d just like to ask the Christians here about the concept of “faith” from the Biblical standpoint.

In all honesty, I think the concept of “Faith” doesn’t make much sense at all even when you look at it through the rose-tinted glasses of the Bible. Ever notice how some of the most “faithful” heroes of the Bible weren’t actually called to be as “Faithful” as your average Christian?

Abraham saw angels a minimum of twice before being “tested”.
Moses saw a burning bush in the desert and God actually appears and has a little chat with him.
Samuel heard the voice of God.
Peter and the 12 apostles travelled with Jesus and saw an assortment of numerous miracles including the raising of the dead on two occasions (and even then they still disowned him).
Paul/Saul was murdering christians before he had a vision on the road to Damascus, went blind and was healed by a prophet.

Why do you think it is it that all these great Christian characters had the luxury of a personal and gripping encounter with “God” or his agents (Angels) yet ordinary Joe Schmoe has to believe or not based on hearsay and a Book that’s been revised several hundred times in the last 1000 years?

Suffice to say, if you take the most belligerent anti-Christian fanatic on this board, and tonight he gets a “Paul experience” while he was driving down the road, wouldn’t you say there’s a more than fair chance he’d be a convert tomorrow?

Another example would be if I told you I had a magic 8-ball that could predict tomorrow’s lotto numbers. You’d probably (correctly) scoff, unless I did it infront of your eyes and really won tomorrow - then you’d probably be a lot less sceptical. And even the odds of a magic lotto-predicting 8-ball would be more logical than a creator god for which no real evidence exists.

So would I be wrong in questioning the logic of “faith”?[/quote]

The word you are looking for is belief.

[quote]pat wrote:
Something tells me this is an alter ego, I detect a linguistic style similarity to somebody else, I just cannot pin down who…

Oh, an chalk up yet another religious thread started by an atheist. Why are atheists so interested in God? I wish more Christians were as interested in God as these atheists are.[/quote]

Its really you isn’t it Pat. You’re trying to goof with all of us.

Quite messing with our minds!!!

[quote]ranengin wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:
Something tells me this is an alter ego, I detect a linguistic style similarity to somebody else, I just cannot pin down who…

Oh, an chalk up yet another religious thread started by an atheist. Why are atheists so interested in God? I wish more Christians were as interested in God as these atheists are.[/quote]

Its really you isn’t it Pat. You’re trying to goof with all of us.

Quite messing with our minds!!![/quote]

Hmm. That’s exactly what someone who was trying to cover themselves up would say…

Ok, operating under the assumption that the OP is not an alter ego,

You’re asking at least two distinct questions here–

  1. is it rational to believe in the existence of a creator God,

And 2) the question related directly to Christianity.

You can’t proceed to the specific question on Christianity without addressing the first. I wpuld agree with DoubleDuce–faith in some way is part of every day life, some ways more obvious than others. Simply because you accept the presence of faith in eveey day life, in some way, doesnt mean that you are irrational in thought or of subpar intelligence like many would have you believe.

The question becomes then, not a question of the presence of faith but a question of the degree to which you can accept its presence in life. The question becomes much, much different.

[quote]pat wrote:

Something tells me this is an alter ego, I detect a linguistic style similarity to somebody else, I just cannot pin down who…

Oh, an chalk up yet another religious thread started by an atheist. Why are atheists so interested in God? I wish more Christians were as interested in God as these atheists are.[/quote]

I’m not an atheist.

Just because someone is non-religious doesnt automatically mean they are atheist?

I also only have one account - previous posts are more on training forums than on here.
Also, get a mod to check my IP, it’ll show its from Asia not the US.

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

Well, first off, biblical texts are amazing un altered back as far as with 20 years or so of the actual time of Jesus.

The only thing I would say is that with knowledge comes responsibility. The less you have to take on faith, the more responsible you are for your own actions. If you actually had god stand before you, what excuse would you have for sinning? What would you have to do with your life to fulfill that responsibility of knowing? Sell everything and run around trying to convince everyone? What would honestly become of your life if you met god? Do you really want that? Lots of those biblical figures had much harder lives (and deaths) because of it. Would you even believe it anyway? Probability would suggest it more likely someone had slipped you LSD or you had a psychotic break.

Everything we do in life is based on faith to some degree. Faith your leg will catch you when you fall forward walking, faith that the sun is coming up in the morning, faith that the eggs you ate for breakfast weren’t giving you salmonella, faith that science and medicine are right when your mom starts chemo. Faith is a natural part of being human, why should spirituality be different?
[/quote]

Lets not quibble on the veracity of the Bible. That’s a whole new can of worms (and FTR I believe many parts of it are true, largely those that jive with the Torah).

The difference is, Faith in everyday things can largely be attributed to predictability or previous experience and/or experimental evidence.

For example, you can say with some confidence that tomorrow will be sunny based on the existing weather patterns in your area over the last 10 years, and also due to the season.

Maybe I phrased my initial question wrong - let me try again:

Why is it that God chooses to reveal himself to some and not to most others? And would you not think it logical that those who have the most supernatural, believable, experiences also go on to become the most faithful?

IF Saint Peter saw the miracles of Jesus firsthand and yet saw fit to deny knowing him, is an ordinary person truly at fault for not trusting in God despite never actually encountering him/it?

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

And 2) the question related directly to Christianity.

You can’t proceed to the specific question on Christianity without addressing the first. I wpuld agree with DoubleDuce–faith in some way is part of every day life, some ways more obvious than others. Simply because you accept the presence of faith in eveey day life, in some way, doesnt mean that you are irrational in thought or of subpar intelligence like many would have you believe.

The question becomes then, not a question of the presence of faith but a question of the degree to which you can accept its presence in life. The question becomes much, much different.[/quote]

I’m more discussing Faith as it relates to Christianity in general (although I get that other religions also encourage faith). Perhaps Buddhism is the only exception.

[quote]ranengin wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:
Something tells me this is an alter ego, I detect a linguistic style similarity to somebody else, I just cannot pin down who…

Oh, an chalk up yet another religious thread started by an atheist. Why are atheists so interested in God? I wish more Christians were as interested in God as these atheists are.[/quote]

Its really you isn’t it Pat. You’re trying to goof with all of us.

Quite messing with our minds!!![/quote]

Your world isn’t real…You’re just a figment of my imagination and I am in control… I am sending a lion to eat you sometime. You’ll never know when or where, it will be random. I am in control of my world! If you could eat a little more corn and barley, it will help the taste of the meat… :slight_smile:

[quote]NotaQuitta wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

Something tells me this is an alter ego, I detect a linguistic style similarity to somebody else, I just cannot pin down who…

Oh, an chalk up yet another religious thread started by an atheist. Why are atheists so interested in God? I wish more Christians were as interested in God as these atheists are.[/quote]

I’m not an atheist.

Just because someone is non-religious doesnt automatically mean they are atheist?
[/quote]
Usually, but not always… I take the safe assumption. K, so you’re not atheist.

[quote]
I also only have one account - previous posts are more on training forums than on here.
Also, get a mod to check my IP, it’ll show its from Asia not the US.[/quote]

LOL! I don’t really care that much. But I will answer your questions then if you are being honest.

The epistle of the Apostle Paul to the Romans chapter 9 vv 14-22 [quote]<<< 14 What shall we say then? Is there injustice on GodÃ??Ã?¢??s part? By no means! 15 For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” 16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion,b but on God, who has mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” 18 So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.

19 You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” 20 But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? >>>[/quote]

The gospel of Luke chapter 16 vv19-31 [quote]<<< 19 "There was a rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and who feasted sumptuously every day. 20 And at his gate was laid a poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores, 21 who desired to be fed with what fell from the rich man’s table. Moreover, even the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s side.f The rich man also died and was buried, 23 and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side. 24 And he called out, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame.’ 25 But Abraham said, ‘Child, remember that you in your lifetime received your good things, and Lazarus in like manner bad things; but now he is comforted here, and you are in anguish. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, in order that those who would pass from here to you may not be able, and none may cross from there to us.’ 27 And he said, ‘Then I beg you, father, to send him to my father’s houseÃ??Ã?¢?? 28 for I have five brothersgÃ??Ã?¢??so that he may warn them, lest they also come into this place of torment.’ 29 But Abraham said, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.’ 30 And he said, ‘No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ 31He said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be convinced if someone should rise from the dead.’" >>>[/quote] Boy is that ever true.

Peter WAS an ordinary person and everyBODY encounters God everyWHERE and in everyTHING, but most especially in themselves having been created in His very image. The mighty epistle of Paul to the Romans again, chapter 1 vv18-23 [quote]<<< 18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. 19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. 21 For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools, 23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things. >>>[/quote] There is no more certain fact in all of reality than the existence of and moral responsibility to the God the bible. He would never leave any doubt. The doubt is the result of YOUR sin. Not the inadequacy of HIS evidence.

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]NotaQuitta wrote:
Ok, let me first start off by saying I am not a Christian-basher like some on the forum. Although I am non-religious, my folks are Christians and quite staunch believers as well so I wouldn’t dream of disparaging Christianity just to “troll”. Its not how I roll.

I’d just like to ask the Christians here about the concept of “faith” from the Biblical standpoint.

In all honesty, I think the concept of “Faith” doesn’t make much sense at all even when you look at it through the rose-tinted glasses of the Bible. Ever notice how some of the most “faithful” heroes of the Bible weren’t actually called to be as “Faithful” as your average Christian?

Abraham saw angels a minimum of twice before being “tested”.
Moses saw a burning bush in the desert and God actually appears and has a little chat with him.
Samuel heard the voice of God.
Peter and the 12 apostles travelled with Jesus and saw an assortment of numerous miracles including the raising of the dead on two occasions (and even then they still disowned him).
Paul/Saul was murdering christians before he had a vision on the road to Damascus, went blind and was healed by a prophet.

Why do you think it is it that all these great Christian characters had the luxury of a personal and gripping encounter with “God” or his agents (Angels) yet ordinary Joe Schmoe has to believe or not based on hearsay and a Book that’s been revised several hundred times in the last 1000 years?

Suffice to say, if you take the most belligerent anti-Christian fanatic on this board, and tonight he gets a “Paul experience” while he was driving down the road, wouldn’t you say there’s a more than fair chance he’d be a convert tomorrow?

Another example would be if I told you I had a magic 8-ball that could predict tomorrow’s lotto numbers. You’d probably (correctly) scoff, unless I did it infront of your eyes and really won tomorrow - then you’d probably be a lot less sceptical. And even the odds of a magic lotto-predicting 8-ball would be more logical than a creator god for which no real evidence exists.

So would I be wrong in questioning the logic of “faith”?[/quote]

Well, first off, biblical texts are amazing un altered back as far as with 20 years or so of the actual time of Jesus.

[/quote]

Not to get off topic of the thread, but I cannot let this false statement pass. WHich Biblical Texts do you speak of?

[quote]NotaQuitta wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

Something tells me this is an alter ego, I detect a linguistic style similarity to somebody else, I just cannot pin down who…

Oh, an chalk up yet another religious thread started by an atheist. Why are atheists so interested in God? I wish more Christians were as interested in God as these atheists are.[/quote]

I’m not an atheist.

Just because someone is non-religious doesnt automatically mean they are atheist?

I also only have one account - previous posts are more on training forums than on here.
Also, get a mod to check my IP, it’ll show its from Asia not the US.[/quote]

Do you just choose not to follow a religion, or does it not really interest you?

CS

[quote]colt44 wrote:

Not to get off topic of the thread, but I cannot let this false statement pass. WHich Biblical Texts do you speak of? [/quote]

Speaking on the topic of Christianity, I meant the new testament.

[quote]NotaQuitta wrote:
Ok, let me first start off by saying I am not a Christian-basher like some on the forum. Although I am non-religious, my folks are Christians and quite staunch believers as well so I wouldn’t dream of disparaging Christianity just to “troll”. Its not how I roll.

I’d just like to ask the Christians here about the concept of “faith” from the Biblical standpoint.

In all honesty, I think the concept of “Faith” doesn’t make much sense at all even when you look at it through the rose-tinted glasses of the Bible. Ever notice how some of the most “faithful” heroes of the Bible weren’t actually called to be as “Faithful” as your average Christian?

Abraham saw angels a minimum of twice before being “tested”.
Moses saw a burning bush in the desert and God actually appears and has a little chat with him.
Samuel heard the voice of God.
Peter and the 12 apostles travelled with Jesus and saw an assortment of numerous miracles including the raising of the dead on two occasions (and even then they still disowned him).
Paul/Saul was murdering christians before he had a vision on the road to Damascus, went blind and was healed by a prophet.

Why do you think it is it that all these great Christian characters had the luxury of a personal and gripping encounter with “God” or his agents (Angels) yet ordinary Joe Schmoe has to believe or not based on hearsay and a Book that’s been revised several hundred times in the last 1000 years?
[/quote]
Well, up until the apostles, these weren’t ‘Christian characters’ they were Jewish. And yes, some people through out history have been chosen for divine revelation while the rest of us have not. I don’t know why he chose whom he chose. They all had things in common, though, humility, faithfulness and lowliness. If people had these types of encounters all the time, then they wouldn’t really be significant enough to pen down in a book. God seems to go out of his way not to interfere. However, I interact with him in faith in a tangible way. It is a reciprocated relationship. Just because he doesn’t pop out of the sky and knock me over doesn’t mean he’s not interacting with me. The other significant things about these encounters is when God shows up in person, he is usually asking for big massive things and these hero’s often suffer for it. So, the question is if you want some encounter like that with God, are you prepared to do anything he wants even to the death? He doesn’t show up just to say ‘Hi’.

Perhaps…Paul was already a man of great faith before he got knocked off his horse. He then gave up everything he was and had to follow ‘The Way’. Who ever want’s a Paul experience, better be ready to do what Paul did, and endure what Paul endured. God doesn’t just physically appear to people just so they’d believe. He makes it clear in scripture that not only does he not do that, but he won’t. He gives plenty of stuff out there for the average believer to have faith. No great sign is required. When you live in faith you can see God’s signature everywhere. If you choose not to believe, you need a big fat miracle to force you to believe and then, maybe you will.
There are plenty of people in the scriptures who watch Jesus do these tremendous signs and they still didn’t believe. So big fat miracles don’t guarantee a damn thing when it comes to faith.

[quote]
Another example would be if I told you I had a magic 8-ball that could predict tomorrow’s lotto numbers. You’d probably (correctly) scoff, unless I did it infront of your eyes and really won tomorrow - then you’d probably be a lot less sceptical. And even the odds of a magic lotto-predicting 8-ball would be more logical than a creator god for which no real evidence exists.

So would I be wrong in questioning the logic of “faith”?[/quote]

Jesus raised a guy from the dead who was dead for 4 days and there were witnesses to that who still didn’t believe. So no, a really accurate magic 8 ball won’t make you believe in the 8 ball. Even in the face of great signs faith is a choice, and no matter the sign, people still choose not to believe. If I were God, I would not feel very compelled to put on a magic show for people either. That’s not what it’s about.
If you want to see a magic show, go see a magician.

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]ranengin wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:
Something tells me this is an alter ego, I detect a linguistic style similarity to somebody else, I just cannot pin down who…

Oh, an chalk up yet another religious thread started by an atheist. Why are atheists so interested in God? I wish more Christians were as interested in God as these atheists are.[/quote]

Its really you isn’t it Pat. You’re trying to goof with all of us.

Quite messing with our minds!!![/quote]

Your world isn’t real…You’re just a figment of my imagination and I am in control… I am sending a lion to eat you sometime. You’ll never know when or where, it will be random. I am in control of my world! If you could eat a little more corn and barley, it will help the taste of the meat… :)[/quote]

Meh… I’m surrounded by fat asses. When the lion comes my way, I’ll toss it a fatty, it’ll gorge itself and fall asleep. It’ll be easy to escape time after time.