A Scientific Look at Toxic Masculinity

Yeah but have you seeeeeeeen my delphiniums?

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They probably think so too :joy:

Frankly, IDGAF what people think about me because they aren’t me. If that’s “toxic masculinity”, then be sure to let the door hit you on the way out; I shaved regularly before it became a means to dull down how overly masculine I must be :nail_care:

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People who want to make their thoughts known about me are usually broke losers and cucks so…

IDGAF either. I just do me and if I am toxic - so be it.

Hint: I am toxic AF and I love it.

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Same, but female.

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It seems to me like a lot, or all of the “toxic” parts of “toxic masculinity” come from insecurity rather than anything inherently masculine.

Assertiveness is masculine, add insecurity and you get bullying.

Competitiveness is masculine, add insecurity and you get the kind of behaviour @cdep89 was talking about above.

I’m just spitballing here, so shoot me down if i’m way off course.

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I agree.

Doing things to look a certain way or to show off is definitely not masculine.

Doing things to provide for your family and to care for them regardless of how you look to the outside world is masculine. It is about serving those you love and using your strength to protect those weaker than you.

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I dunno, man. The definition of quality probably varies greatly among females. Many might prefer a highly intelligent male, albeit slightly lower on the T scale, than the stereotypic “alpha.”

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I agree. The highest quality is subjective to the individual woman, and can change over time.

I think intelligence is a highly valued trait by most women.

Just say it’s money. You’re among brothers in toxicity.

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It certainly matters for some women. If I had a lot of money, it would be a turn off for me, if that is why I thought a woman was into me. I think I would hide that fact from women. Of all the things that could attract a woman, money seems to be so far removed from the actual traits of the guy. I would think she doesn’t actually like me, but my money. You could get a hooker(s) a lot cheaper, and they would like you for the same reasons.

High status woman (young and physically attractive) go for a high status man (earning potential and disposable income). Men want young and physically attractive to ensure procreation, women want money to ensure security in raising their children. Even with what was said about being attracted to intelligence, along with creative types/musicians, that could be tied into earning potential. Very typical mating strategies.

We’ve all heard this kind of stuff before, but I pulled this straight out of a book i’m finally getting around to finishing. “The Like Switch”, written by a former FBI agent and behavioural analyst. Not a great book by any means, a lot of it is very obvious stuff but it was recommended by an old article here so meh.

I can agree a bit, but I think more goes into high status than earning potential for men, and looks and youth for women.

Money has diminishing returns after a point. Looks do to. It is logical to me for both sexes to look for other traits they desire if those other things are adequate.

Since when do humans choose partners logically?

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Good point. Very few of us do.

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Girl: I want a nice guy.
picks a dickhead

Guy: I just want someone down to earth
picks the sexy airhead

We know what we need, but it’s not often what we go for. As with all these things there are always massive exceptions.

A big problem for a large portion of the population is by the time they become aware enough to be accountable for their choices it’s usually too late and there’s marriage or a kid involved.

My response was more rhetorical. I know you weren’t saying masculinity is toxic in itself.

My point just being if you look at pop culture, those traits defined as toxic are now praised in women. These aren’t physical traits either.

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…if they did that, then they’d be lonely(ier?) creatures since we all know they only attract beta orbiters

Ehh, idk about this. I think many women are feminists in the wake of bad relationships, and many others have yet to find a man that is worthwhile (perhaps female incels? this might be a perspective for a different thread.).

I DO believe that most feminist ideology dies at the hands of men who are not insecure, because the prior-feminists realize not all men are shit. Although, I think some feminists really just want a guy they can dominate - I just don’t see that panning out well as domination isn’t exactly good grounds for any relationship (regardless of who is dominating who).

There are women that complain all men are shit but that’s because they are dating the same men, the top 10% or whatever it is. That’s what women go for and dating apps have helped prove and solidify that. There are plenty of “not shit men” out there but they don’t get picked over the man they might not quite be good enough for, the one that has lots of options. They get let down. If they considered going through a more thoughtful picking and mating process (like having a man actually prove himself before sleeping with him), they might not just end up trying with another dude with a wealth of options that are probably higher value and getting hurt again.

It’s way easier to blame all men than to take accountability that maybe you pick bad potential partners.

There’s also the girls who can’t get a man at all and rather than lower their standards just decide that men are the problem. Men are guilty of this too.

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I think the bigger problem, which is always ignored in these situations, is that the women chasing that top 10% of men are ironically not in the top 10% of women.

It’s always the single moms who are 60lbs overweight looking for men who earn 6 figures, must be over 6ft tall, and also live to serve these rascal-riders.

Ehh, yeah I guess I just made a post saying the same thing but in more words :sweat_smile:
Agree with this statement 100%.

Female Incels may make for an interesting thread, depending whose involved. Will have to put a pin in that one for now.

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