A Question About Alleged Natural Contests

That’s Aaron Clark. You can look him up.

Genetics always help, but I have to wonder (and I may be way off base here), at what age he had “the talk” with them,… not about sex, about gear usage.

S

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I don’t know whether it’s acceptable for a parent to talk about their child about using gear (if say under 18). I’ve heard of many parents giving their child GH for sport… on rare occasions if the child has a shot at being drafted they’ll even administer gear (be it through taking their child to a shady clinic for a script or outright giving UGL products)… but I find this profoundly immoral. It’s the Childs choice to make, not the parent’s… a 15/16y/o kid can’t entirely comprehend the potential rammifications his decisions may entail, and his parents GIVING/condoning gear usage may make the (presumably normal) child think “well if my folks are alright with it… it’s okay”

I mean, his mom made that transformation with her son in six months (normal looking to that)… what are the chances she dipped into his stash?

I’ll openly admit I have no clue,… but going to local amateur NPC shows, and seeing the occasional TEENAGER sporting a physique that any 25-30 year old who had been training for a few years would be envious of does raise an eyebrow or two regarding the subject.

S

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Yes, there are many kids who use gear. I know a few (they don’t compete/nor are they involved within competitive athletics)… one uses SARMS/GH year round (idiot)… but he’s a very large individual. I can almost guarantee you their parents have no idea (be it naivety, ignorance regarding the topic or turning a blind eye).

The majority of kids I know who use/want to use gear (something of which I refuse to provide advice regarding… other than stating the potential ramifications) hop on because they wish to be personal trainers… wish to look the part (which is… dumb… but I’m not going to say that to them). There’s also the fallacy within my age group that SARMS are “safe”… but they’re not, they about on par with gear.

The preliminary data on the compounds indicate dose dependent elevations in LFT’s if I recall correctly, depression in HDL/increase in LDL, extensive suppression of SHBG (sound familiar, these are characteristics reminiscent of AAS, the LFT alterations only being primarily implicated within those of a c17aa nature…), dose dependent suppression of the HPTA. Take into account the recreational dosages of sarms are about 5-10x+ those used within clinical trials, yet they’re being marketed as safe…

Whoever decided to market these to teens should be put in prison… or pay out MASSIVE sums of money to all the kids they’re irreparably damaged

Regardless, this is a topic for a different thread.

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More like not their choice … or like … a choice with a punishment.

This is where I’d honestly disagree… 99% of the time, parents don’t have a clue and/or turn a blind eye. I’d be shitting bricks if my 15y/o kid was using gear (if I had a kid that is)… most parents aren’t educated within this field, might see the results and think “wow, he’s really been working hard”… think nothing more of it.

The punishment isn’t imposed by an authoritarian figure in this case, the punishment is self inflicted (neurologically, a shut down HPTA relating to hypogonadism had to be one of the worst feelings I’ve ever felt)… during the emotionally voilatile period of adolescence, this would be a DISASTER!

Long term consequence is also a prospect most users (child or adult) overlook. Most kids using aren’t exactly “conservative”; there’s the “I’m young, invisible, nothing bad will ever happen to me” mentality, thus many youngsters use absurd dosages for prolonged periods of time… the chance for complications increase exponentially the higher the dosage gets. Dosages over say 500mg weekly are where I think it starts to get seriously risky, I think 99.5 percent of guys using gear use more than this (TRT doesn’t count)

If you are saying it’s a disaster and you’re correct, most normal parents don’t want such or any disaster.

Regarding only harm to self regarding recreational use or abuse of drugs: this concept works if drug users remain on their best behavior and quarantine themselves in their rooms and with long term use still have the same sound judgment they had before wrecking their brains with dust, crack, meth, etc. Have you ever lived, spent time, or worked in a town with a good chunk of the population on drugs? (No, I’m not talking about weed and booze, although alcohol has also had people go beyond harming themselves.)

Yes, it’s a subject for another thread.

It can be and has been since the concept of a family came about.

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I have a long, highly detailed response for this, but as you’ve specified it’s for another thread

I’ll end with this. I dislike the notion of AAS users being compared to those using had drugs. Rarely do you see a guy on test unable to contribute to society/hold down a job. Rarely do you see a guy on some test/deca deteriorating rapidly into a psychotic, violent state like you’d see with PCP, methamphetamine etc.

I’ve been around drugs… I’ve seen the consequence that can stem from addiction. I also believe booze is one of the more harmful substances of recreation available (not at the level of crack or meth)… but when chronically abused few substances elicit the same level of systemic toxicity. Furthermore the consequences/risky behaviour that can stem from ones drunken exploits tends to surpass that of say… MDMA, cannabis, psychedelic drugs (in a safe environment) and more… I’d argue booze is riskier than many substances one can net jail time for possessing. The war on drugs/tough on crime/punitive approach to this kind of behaviour has been a failure in my opinion

A parent won’t typically be able to discern the signs of AAS abuse within a child… you and I might be able to notice, but most parents won’t, thus the majority of the punishment induced is self inflicted. But yes, if a parent finds gear in their 14 y/olds room, by all means DROP THE FUCKING HAMMER!

Regardless, we can agree to disagree. As someone who has experimented with (admittedly very low dosages) of synthetic androgens after having been put on TRT, I can state with certainty that it hasn’t affected my ability to function as an adequate, contributing member of society.

If you wish to continue this convo I’ll create a new thread “AAS use and ramifications: who does it harm?”. I actually think it’s a very interesting topic in general and like hearing the ideologies harboured by others so I can better understand different bodies of thought (same with gun control, LGBTQI rights, thoughts on immigration etc)

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I had an old friend (@BrickHead knows who I’m referring to) who was a national level competitor, Gear dealer, as well as engaging in other… “questionable” activities who used to always say that no one takes a shot of Deca and then gets behind the wheel of their car “under the influence” and runs over a bunch of kids.

S

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Of course it doesn’t. I was speaking of other subjects and contexts of our conversation. I also spoke of steroid use at specifically 15 or 16 not being tolerated in my or others’ households. @The_Mighty_Stu

Agreed, any parent who tolerates/condones PED usage at such an age is failing their duty as a parent… to (attempt to) protect their child from harm

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The things parents do to try to push their kids to the front of the pack athletically is insane and would turn your stomach.

Interwebs indignation aside, the guy who was asking about gh for his kid a week ago is a lightweight.

I actually felt lucky my dad didn’t give a crap about wrestling compared to what some parents put their kids through.

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Yup! The same goes academically. I know some people who did just fine or even exceptionally well who didn’t spend all their weekend and summer days cooped up with excessive studying.

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Great analogy.

There is plenty of room for dedication and effort before one arrives at “Win At All Cost!” no matter the subject.

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Judging from the results of the war on murder, should we stop incarcerating murderers considering the astonishing murder rates of some US cities?

Serious question: are you an anarchist?

Anyway, in keeping serious and back to the topic of roids, I ask what do you get out of doing them if you’re not involved in serious physical competition. I am not asking in a condescending manner. I have no reason to and you seem like a nice guy.

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Perhaps, though I do support the regulation of firearms… not going into that though

As to murderers… can’t make the comparison. Where I live I risk legitimately getting a criminal record for say… marijuana possession… but I can legally be drunk in public, if you’re going to enforce and condone this “war” of sorts… erase hypocritical double standards, ban alcohol and tobacco…

I don’t see you’re response as condescending, I see it as you conveying a differing ideology, you’re probably concerned for my health and well-being and I appreciate that :slight_smile:

Tommorow I’m going to create an off topic thread regarding the subtopic of “the war on drugs”, I’ll include AAS and ramifications within said thread. If you’re interested you we can continue the convo there.

As to roids, I don’t “cycle”, though I do use dosages marginally higher than trt (200-250mg weekly, have dabbled with 300mg)

What do I get out of them? I have the following conditions

  • BJHMS (benign joint hypermobility syndome)
  • fibromyalgia
  • generalised chronic pain, nerve damage from surgeries etc)

Within question to the first condition… yes, Physical Therapy has helped, however I was frequently told “the best way to lessen pain is to build as much muscle mass and strength (proportionally) over particularly afflicted areas to aid with generalised joint stability.” Honestly, doctors and PT’s here have no clue about AAS, I’ve been told “yes, but they don’t build strength”… I can link about 100 studies that’d disprove this theory

I’ve found a modestly pharmacological dosage has dramatically lessened my pain, the bigger I seem to get, the more pain free I am within regards to day to day life. With the addition of anabolics I don’t have to lift particularly heavy (huge strain on my body) in order to reap adequte gains. It’s entirely cut out the need for me to take opiates (after I was put on TRT for compounding reasons I was put on opiate pain meds round the clock, I quit cold turkey after 3 months… perhaps it was longer… I was so spaced out the whole time… against recommendation to quit)

When I drop the dosage, get injured and begin to lose muscle mass (which inevitably happens) my pain starts getting worse. I’ve recently had to have a cortisone shot within my left subacromial bursa… so I think, what would I prefer

  • cortisone shots
  • painkillers and/or medical marijuana (I smoke grass occasionally, but not the high potency stuff you’d get in the US… more like compressed Bush with leaves/stems etc)
  • a little bit of nandrolone decanaote (anecdotes stipulate this helps with joint pain… I can attest to the fact it does)

Finally… the drugs make you (well at least for me) FEEL good… all the time. I’m well aware of the potential repercussions my actions may entail. However one must remember about 99% of guys using gear aren’t doing so to compete. You’ve got

  • vanity/ increased sex appeal
  • insecurity
  • reaching personalised goals

And more… there’s the notion of which stipulates AAS may directly increase pain threshold via neurological alteration (fibromyalgia induces pain partially via neurological abnormalities)… there may be something to it… lower dosages (say 100mg weekly) and shit gets worse

I’ve had to deal with a lot of shit throughout my life, I find AAS usage increases the quality of my life considerably, and thus being that I’m already on TRT I don’t regret my decision… yet…

I’m well versed regarding the potential cardiac implications (and the mechanisms by which they occur), net neurotoxic effect, renal/haematological complications etc. I moniter everything regularly (I’ve gotten my heart checked about four/five times, get bloods regularly, regular self performed precordial examinations/checking for heart murmurs, check BP… typically a very nice 90/60).

Finally, regarding heavy lifting… it’s not that I go “light” but I stick within the 10-20 rep range, focus on TUT, I’ll increase weights as I see fit and once in a while I’ll go heavy. I’m not “strong” per se but I can pull 405 for a few reps, CAN/could bench slightly over 100kg but I don’t bench anymore due to the searing pain it induces within my shoulders (I have a structural defect present (bony in nature) upon my left deltoid. I’ve built up enough mass over the area to the extent in which its barely noticeable, but I get a lot of pain from say, barbell bench, overhead pressing etc… I stick to DB press (even then there’s pain, but not unbearable), flies and dips for my chest work.

I’m interested although I believe 99-100 percent of posters will be annoyed with my posts because I’m not unconditionally dedicated to concepts such as “choice”, “free will,” “no one has the ‘right’ to judge”, “freedom,” and “only harm to thyself”.

That’s fine if they’re annoyed… who cares! Part of “free will” is the ability to express you’re ideologies. I’m all ears to hearing differing opinions. If anyone turns hostile/aggressive, ignore them.

If we were all the same regarding our views/opinions on various subtopics the world would be incredibly boring.

I’m still awake here because I appear to have contracted

  • a sinus infection

Or

  • allergies are kicking up again
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I recently started tutoring for fun, and it’s crazy how many kids are forced to get tutoring by their parents despite already knowing the material and doing well in class. For a lot of the kids, their schedule is 8am - 330pm school, 4pm to 5pm homework, and 530pm to 7pm tutoring. By the time they get to me in the evening, they’re half asleep.

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