T Nation

A Question About Alleged Natural Contests

a question about alleged natural races that they say they do

these people who compete, say that they are all natural, that for me it is impossible, I am also enclosing the substances prohibited in the category,

the question I want to ask, since they are all doped and I don’t like lies, as they do for any checks …

2019 WNBF & Affiliate Banned Substance List
limited to)
1-Androstendiol/1-Androstendione/1-Testosterone, 4-Hydroxytestosterone (Formestane),
6a-Methylandrostendione, Androstendiol/Androstendione, Bolasterone, Boldenone,
Calusterone, Clenbutorol, Clostebol, Danazol, Desoxymethyltestosterone (DMT),
Dhydrochloromethyltestosterone (DHCMT)/CHIOROMESTERONE, Drostanolone,
Estra-4,9-diene-3,17-dione, Fluoxymesterone, Formebolone, Furazabol, Halodrol, Mestanolone,
Mesterolone, Methandrostenolone/Methandienone, Methandriol, Methasterone, Methenolone,
Methyl-1-testosterone, Methyltestosterone, Mibolerone,
Nandrolone/19-Norandrostendione/19-Norandrostendiol, Norclostebol, Norethandrolone,
Oxabolone, Oxandrolone, Oxymesterone, Oxymetholone, Prostanozol, Stanozolol, Stenbolone,
Testolactone, Trenbolone, T3 (Liothyronine sodium, Cytomel. T4 (Levothyroxine, Synthroid).
TESTOSTERONE – in any form (injections/patches/gels/pellets) for any reason, even if
TESTOSTERONE/EPITESTOSTERONE (T/E) RATIO – A testosterone to epitestosterone (T/E)
ratio of 6/1 or greater is considered a positive detection of exogenous testosterone (or
testosterone precursor) use.
GROWTH HORMONES - Pharmaceutical Human Growth Hormone (HGH), Human Chorionic
Gonadrotropin (HCG), Gamma hydroxybutyrate (GHB), Somatropin
RELATED COMPOUNDS (including but not limited to) –insulin-like growth factor 1 (IGF-1, oral
spray or sublingual GH compounds of pharmaceutical (recombinant DNA technology) origin,
6OXO; 6OXOandrostenetrione; 2a, 17adimethyl17ß-hydroxy5aandrostan3one; 3,
17ketoetiocholtriene; 1,4,6androstatriene3, 17dione; 3Alpha (5aandrostane-3a, 17bdiol).
Any athlete who is NEW to the federation must have not used any pro-hormones for at
least two (2) years before joining the INBF/WNBF or an affiliate federation for the first
PRESCRIPTION DIURETICS – Acetazolamide, Amiloride, Bendroflumethiazide, Bumetanide,
Canrenone, Chlorothiazide, Chlorthalidone, Clopamide, Cyclothiazide, Dichlorphenamide,
Ethacrynic Acid, Furosemide, Hydrochlorothiazide, Hydroflumethiazide,Triamterene.
Prescription diuretics, even when physician prescribed cannot be used for 3 months prior to
competitions (excluding heart medications).
Spironolactone (for acne is abstinence for 2 weeks).
STIMULANTS (included but not limited to) amphetamines, methamphetamines (speed),
Cocaine, Modafinil, Ephedra/Ephedrine/Ma-Huang, DMAA
(Methylhexanamine,1,3-dimethylamylamine, geranium), and fat burning prohormone derivatives
such as 3, 17dihydroxydelta5etiocholane7one (A7D), and
3,17-dihydroxydelta5etiocholane7one, diethylcarbonate (A7E).
CLENBUTEROL – 2 Years before joining the INBF/WNBF or an affiliate federation for the first
Any athletes who are new to the INBF/WNBF or international affiliate federation must have not
used any stimulants for 3 months before joining the INBF/WNBF or an affiliate federation for
the first time.
MASKING AGENTS (chemicals/drugs for the purpose of deceiving or passing the polygraph or
urine test) such as Epitestosterone or Probenecid
The use of the following substances is Disallowed after July 1, 2016
• SARMs (selective androgen receptor modulators) (e.g. andarine, cardarine, ostarine,
tibolone, zeranol, zilpaterol)
• SERMs (selective estrogen receptor modulators) (e.g. raloxifene, tamoxifen, toremifene)
• 5-AT (5-Etioallocholen-3b,7b,17b-triol)
• DHEA (Dehydroepiandrosterone, 3-beta-Hydroxy-5-androsten-17-one,
• 3-beta-Hydroxyandrost-5-en-17-one, 3-beta- Hydroxy-D5-androsten-17-one,
• 3-beta-hydroxy-etioallocholan-5-ene-17-one, 5-Androsten-3beta-ol-17-one
• 7-keto-DHEA (7-oxo-DHEA, 7-ketodehydroepiandrosterone,
• 7-oxodehydroepiandrosterone (7-oxo-DHEA), 7α-hydroxy-DHEA, 7β-hydroxy-DHEA
The presence of any banned substance in urine, regardless of the cause, is ruled as positive
and considered a failure.
By signing this form, I agree that I have read the full list of banned substances, and I have
researched any questions or uncertainties regarding supplements and the drug testing
procedures. I am responsible for my supplement usage, and understand the polygraph
and urinalysis testing results are binding and conclusive. I also acknowledge that after
signing this form I will at no point use anything on the banned substance list, or I will
sacrifice my eligibility for a duration of 10 years.
Signature: ___________________________________________ Date: __________

Looking at the pictures: yes they are natural. 100%. Sorry if it hurts your feelings.

These people are amongst the best natural in the world. What would you expect? For real? The best? They have good genetics, been consistently for many years, started most likely early, followed their diets with very little slacking for years, most likley started being coached and doing smart training early in their careers… also been competing for years, and that is a big driver.

A friend of mine is junior physique french and european champion. After 3 tears of training. He started at 16 (and I know, I trained with him) trained like a madman, almost never cheated on his diet, for years! When we would partying he wouldn’t even drink a beer. And started competing at 17 and being coached by a world top competitor. His life his for the training and the stage. I’ve never seen anyone train so hard. And now he’s really big. What do you think will happen in 5-10 years? He’ll crush the guys you posted. This is the kind of guy you’ll find at the too. We can not compete because we are not committed 100%. Maybe 95% but that’s not enough. Ask Stu Welling here on the forums


You are in for a very disappointing life.


I don’t like lies

Why even worry if they’re natural or not? If they’re natural, that’s no guarantee that you’ll have the genetics to match them. And if they’re all on steroids, you could possibly have the genetics to beat them. You’ll never know until you get to a high enough level. Focus on how far you can go, dude.


Based off the OPs post history I find his post pretty hypocritical. Considering the subject matter he was asking about in August.

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What was he talking about in August? (Based on the thread, I’m guessing steroids)

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Um, you haven’t actually asked a question.

Then it’s a good thing the competitors literally need to pass a lie detector test, in addition to a pee test.


They could be on steroids I suppose, but if you’re incredulity stems from their results then I think you’re off the mark. Those physiques look achievable naturally to me. The top end of achievable, but isn’t that exactly what BB competition is about and what will be on display on the podiums?


I gotta agree, those generally look natural. I mean, that’s exactly what I would look like if I had far more muscle and way less fat.

I think you guys are all failing to take into account to truth that anyone who is bigger than me is on steroids, while anyone that is smaller than me isn’t working hard enough.


Have you ever seen an actual natural bodybuilder (a good one, not some
Schmuck who runs his mouth a ton but hasn’t done much) in person?



To be fair, there are ways to get around polygraph/urine tests

That being said, in the federations wherein all competitors are polygraphed/urine tested… they’re more than likely natty, barring perhaps a few competitors as you’ll always get those assholes that like to have an unfair advantage, be it because they’re dicks and can garner fame becuase they know they suck and can’t win untested shows… require gear to win tested shows, or those who for whatever reason believe all natty guys are on gear lol… enhanced guys can and should compete in other leagues

There are leagues like the IFBB/NABBA that SAY they abide by WADA policy, but seriously… when was the last time any IFBB competitor was drug tested. Leagues like ANB I believe are legitimately composed of mostly natural guys… not to say every natural league guy is natural, if I recall correctly either Dennis Wolf or Rolley Winklaar competed in a drug tested comp at one point, but I’d assume the vast majority, if competing naturally are natty… at the TOP TOP level it’s slightly different, that’d be like me saying “every Olympic level athlete is natty”… no… they’re not, but amateur level natural bodybuilding… they’re probably natty, good genetics and work ethic can go a long way, just look at the mighty stu and brickhead…

If a league is doing year round drug testing (as some do), then I’m inclined to believe the majority of competitors are natty… TNE can be used and is out/undetectable within a day, but no one is going to use this to compete, it’s not feasible, the water retention is extensive, one would need to PCT to avoid losing everything afterwards and PCT drugs are detectable for a long ass time…

Anyone taller than me is on GH… and has been since age eight, so that’s like… 99 percent of the populace

Edit: I just looked at the photos this guy posted up and I’d like to say… are you kidding me… these guys are most certainly natty, what you need to remember is that they don’t look like this year round, this is PEAK condition, given how lean they are I guarantee you they’d barely stand out wearing regular clothing… remember there’s intensive dieting, carbing up, water depletion etc… they’re ripped, they’re aesthetic, but with good genes/hard work there’s no reason as to why one should think “steroids”…

It’s kind of annoying that whenever someone sees someone more muscular then they could ever be they think it MUST be steroids, Kai Greene would be bigger than 99% of guys on gear even if he was natty… why… because he has great genetics

Look at Eugene Sandow, bodybuilders prior to 1935 just to see what is possible, there were some fucking big guys… look at this dude

Competed prior to testosterone being synthesised, don’t underestimate genetics… but don’t stigmatise and/or judge guys who choose to be enhanced for recreation so long as they don’t compete in natural leagues either

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Thank you for the compliments you’ve given.

I think I have middle-of-the-pack genetics.

With that said I think you should look at some things in a different context. Most WNBF pros don’t blend into a crowd with clothes on, even near contest time. I don’t say this as a humble brag and I’ve already noted my modest genetics. But even with them, I had people in my gym close to contest time speaking of my physique. One guy told me he and his nephew thought I was involved in something serious.

Here’s two pics of me, with clothes on, one eight weeks out, other a week out. Granted I was horsing around posing but I didn’t look ordinary in form-fitting clothes. One was on the Rocky steps in Philly. The one with my IFBB pal Arash was week out.

You don’t need to be a roid-assisted monster with elite genes to stand out.


I think you’ve got above average genes, not many natty guys can get 18 inch arms lean (I recall that being you’re measurement)… dude… you look better than most of the guys who come on the pharma forum, even the ones who say “I’ve used X,Y,Z in retarded doses” I’ll tag you in a forum wherein a guy went full retard, abused his body to no end on his first cycle after apparently having trained for a year… you look 100x better than he does

You’re triceps are full, dense, you’re arms in general stick out from a mile away, that’s a gift! I’m sure you’ve worked tremendously hard to get where you are today

Are you friends with Arash Rahbar? That’s awesome!!! He’s an IFBB pro. I lived like 1 hour from Philly for a quite a few years (one of the more conservative outer suburbs), my brother (cross country runner at the time) would occasionally come down and run the stairs… again and again and again

We are fraternal twins, built very differently (he’s actually tall… bout 5’11)… in his cross country running days he could run like 20 kilometres on a flat surface… daily… without thinking much of it

I could run… like 5 k… once… with training (not built for endurance at all)… can now run 5 k frequently because I’ve tried VERY hard to improve my aerobic endurance… needs to be on a treadmill though, nerve damage in ankle makes flat surface running difficult

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18 inch arms ripped? Daaaaaaamn

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No,that wasn’t me. No way I could get that. I Think he might have mixed that up with Stu’s measurement offseason. @unreal24278

I never even took my measurement around that time but I think I had around 17 inch leanish arms at one point in my life.

Now I’m a semi-dad Bod. Not jacked but not far either. The gym and effort has been very hard to maintain in the past year for me. I truly underestimated how having two kids would effect my gym time, schedule, and energy. One is 2, the other is 7 months. If we have a third I think I’ll truly be a dad Bod one day. Lol.

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Doubt you’re actually a dad bod… a bodybuilder will say they’ve got a dad bod when they still look better than 99% of the population

How was competing… did you enjoy it?

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As I said before I only did one show and I LOVED it despite how terrible one feels in that condition and the hassle a prep provides. If I did a show much younger I likely would’ve done more. I was 37. I’m 40 now. I have absolutely no clue how some people compete with a job and kids.

There’s a guy named cwteamwilson on instagram. He competes (naturally mind you, and I firmly believe he’s natty, perhaps not all the people he coaches… but still most of them…)

He competes working full time with kids, extreme dedication!