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A Neurotic Dieter + Doggcrapp Training = The Most Detailed Log on T-Nation Ever


Thought that I would take time to create a thread here about my current run of the Anabolic Diet.
Considering that this forum has given me the most information of all online resources, it seems to make sense to post up a log here.


I will sit down later on and flesh things out more, but for now I am starting out after an 8 week run using LGD-4033 and am currently still using MK-677

If anyone were interested, I have my blood work and can post that up, with test levels before starting this iteration of the diet.


I am a 36 year old male who was pretty out of shape up until about six years ago. I decided that I would either die or get into shape. I was literally a terrible hypochondriac and without health insurance, went out on a quest to get healthy.

I have been consistently training for the past six years, but that included a lot of consistently FUCKING AROUND which I do not recommend anyone do.

Because of this, I still do not look “huge” and I should after this much time.


  • 5’9"
  • 178 lbs
  • 36 years old
  • Waist? A lot.
  • Bodyfat? realistically 20%

Here are some photos.

From just starting out years ago

My thinnest

Currently after the run of SARMS

Okay then. That will be it for now I guess.

More later, when I get a chance. I need to go train now.


Thanks to the mod for approving the post. It is my first post/thread and I am sure there are probably better ways to introduce myself.

This is not my first time running a diet like this, but the Ultimate Diet by Lyle Mcdonald is not appropriate for me now as I have higher bodyfat levels, therefore I am now here at this point, getting into the induction phase of the diet.

Calories are higher than I would imagine. 3186 is what it comes out to.
Seems crazy, but I am trying to be “by the book” literally on this one.



I started doing doggcrapp training yesterday. I know it is supposed to be for super experienced lifters, but the fact is I have enough actual time under weights to know my limits, and I need something that pushes myself now, so I am giving it a go.

I ended up gaining a lb yesterday and the dropped 2 lbs today. From 178.6 to 176.3 overnight.

I will chalk up the weight gain to adding in potassium and sodium, because on day 2 I felt so bad that I almost abandoned the diet.

Electrolytes make the difference though, so mortons lite salt which has 350mg potassium per serving was added, and then weight spiked up and so did energy levels.

I am generally feeling better, and as opposed to days one and two, I do not have any hunger this morning.

That is also a good thing, my food intake was out of control before starting.


I suppose this was moved to the “pharma” category.
Before that, the spam filter flagged it a bunch.

I am honestly not sure if this belongs in the “pharma” section, but I did mention LGD 4033, however I am not on LGD any longer, only MK 677…

Anyhow, I will definately keep adding to he log, and will try and talk more about the experience on MK 677.

I am new here, so I hope that I hit whatever threshold there is so my posts are not stuck in moderation.

I will post more on the diet tomorrow. I am exhausted NOW and although I am eating a surplus am still tired.

Today’s training was just 35 minutes of steady state cardio. I have nagging knee issues that prevents the HIIT that doggcrapp wants, but I can hit an eliptical going forward and make that happen.


Day 5 - 176.6 Lb

Today was much easier to wake up, however last night I did get up and feel very hungry two hours into sleep.

This is an MK 677 thing that was far worse when I was eating carbohydrates. Last night I had a few tablespoons of organic peanut butter and some walden farms sugar free caramel.

Not terrible, but not good when you know calories do matter.

Tonight is training, it is the “B” workout of doggcrapp training, and it goes down later tonight, after work around 7pm.

Hopefully my power output is good. Considering I am at a calorie SURPLUS on the first part of low carb to keep energy up, it should not be too difficult to adjust to these workouts.



I should add that going into this, I was running around 1000mg caffeine a day. It was out of control.
The past several days have been a concerted effort to get that at least halved, and then eliminated so I can take my energy back throughout the day.

So far I am down to LESS, but have not been tracking.

Anyone who has been basically a SLAVE to caffeine knows, that addiction is as real as any addiction out there.


I’ll surely be following, I love DC training

If you have any questions regarding the topic, I’ll be happy to help

I’m eagerly waiting to see how you constructed your routine


Sure np. I am using Smith machines for the heaviest stuff. This flies against everything I’ve ever know about bodybuilding but I’ve researched this on the main DC forum and the general consensus is that the biggest movement (Incline bench, squat) seem to be acceptable so long as you do hit failure 3x during thatbser and then reasonably use free weights for other movements.

I also have a shoulder impingement that I hope Dante’s method can help. I have to look it up again.

I’ll post up the a/b workouts later possibly thus weekend or tonight if I can.

Do you have any experience with anabolic diet?


The Smith machine is commonly accepted in DC (but you do not rest-pause squats)

Not with anabolic diet but I’ve used similar approaches before

It works like magic, just be sure not to do it the day before your chest/shoulder/tricep/back day and if you do it on the day itself, do it after you have trained


Got it. That would be the “B” workout, legs day. I’ll likely incorporate this when I feel I have the main workouts all down, so likely to be next week.

Are you doing widowmaker leg sets each leg session?


Just to make sure we are on the same page here, DC advocates training 3 times a week, going
(x being rest)
(I’ll admit I just go one on and one off usually)

So in this case you would be doing the shoulder cure on week 1’s Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday
and on week 2’s Monday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday

If it’s a training day, always after the session

Yes, leg sessions always end in a widowmaker.
Now you should probably know that if you are performing exercises such as front squats (so exercises that are hard to perform correctly for long sets) you can do, for example :
A set of 5-7
Then a heavier set of 3-5
And after those you can do the widowmaker set on a leg press, for example


I am using the template found on t-nation as an outline, and generally following that exactly, however I wasn’t planning on a 1 on 1 off.

That would be nice, and I may do this based on how I feel going forward as I eventually cut calories and attempt proper weight loss.

So here is the workout template below the article

And I am paper logging vs app as I feel this can’t be done correctly on an app with proper notes etc.


That is the original AxBxAxx
template, so you are all good with that

(1 on 1 off is not endorsed by Dante, by the way, he suggests the three time a week approach, which works really well too)

I use a notebook (physical one) to log my stuff in the gym and I use Facebook messenger (you can send messages to yourself) to save it in a digital form when I get out, so even if I somehow lose one, I always have the other one.


That’s a good idea. Today I did dimel deadlift as opposed to glute ham raise. My gym has all the power lifter stuff you’d want but no reverse crunch bench.


Do you mean the GHR bench by reverse crunch bench or is it just a piece of equipment that I haven’t heard of?

Apart from that - making sure everything is going as DC intended -
What was your quad movement for the day?

I’m asking because when we are using a deadlift variation for hamstrings we do our bicep/forearm/leg session this way:

1 Bicep movement
2 Forearm movement
bicep stretch
(Optional forearm stretch)
3 Calf movement
4 Quad movement (not with free weights, machines, Smith machine included are preferred)
5 The deadlift variation for hamstrings

So no free squats/front squats and deadlifting on the same day, and you are doing your quad - based movement before hamstrings (normally it’s the other way around)

The reason for not using free weights is the fact that your stabilizer muscles get fatigued and thus your injury risk increases

It may be hard to notice these details when you are first building your program, but that’s part of the learning curve, and it sure does pay off.

Oh yeah, you probably did remember that deadlift variations are not rest-paused?

For dimel deadlifts I’d say go for one set of 11-20 reps, as they are ballistic in nature

(for straight leg deadlifts you can either do a pyramid set or one set of 12 but I’ll not go into that to avoid confusion)

As you may have noticed I do like to discuss DC training



This is where I’ll point out that _I have no idea what’s going on… _

Honest to tell you that I am several times stronger than I was February 27th when I started LGD 4033 and MK 677.

I am trying to gauge my strength.

For example, I’ll do a set of ten and use the weight I think I’ll be dogging the set, and I’ll have to stop at five and then up the weight.

Then additionally, I’ll find myself NEVER feeling like I have that one rep left on the rest pause.

I am still using mk 677 and I want to research its effects on stamina.

I am not resting more than ten to fifteen seconds between the rest pause but feel like I can go on forever.

Actually, while I was on the lgd-4033 I trained consistently in southeast Asia, and all my training was high volume bodypart splits that I had to force myself to stop because I felt again I could go on forever.

Im taking an over the counter test Booster as well and it’s one of those that have ingredients that sort of do show they raise LH And FSH and overall test.

Still, I barely feel like I ever have to stop in the gym.

I’ve been off lgd since April 22nd now.


It is for doing hyper extension, I just don’t know the name. And I speak English (sales) for a living. Go figure.

Well, I did it with 4/5 swapped. OOPS! So my quad movement was leg press. I posted while you were posting that I am apparently way stronger than I thought (which according to Dante probably is still too weak to do his program and I’m literally embarrassed to say I did 360lb leg press for 9…but I could have likely done 450x5 or so)

So I ended up doing the deadlift type lift before leg press. I still felt I had enough in the tank for leg press.

My widomaker set went to 25 reps straight (no rp) so next time I’ll increase it.

Anyhow I guess I won’t see this workout for a week or two because it looks like I’ll have a B2 and B3 to do first.

I am only 176 lbs but eating at 3150 kcal very keto and am barely losing any weight

Last rounds of Keto I’d drop 5-7 lbs on the first week.
Im five days in and I’ve dropped 1 lb and am strong as fuck.

Must be the MK 677?


I believe it’s just called back extension bench, at least that’s what it is in Finnish

It’s not the end of the world, just remember to do it the other way around next time

Leg press goes greatly when doing deadlift for hamstrings

DC is designed to make you stronger and there is no real limit that you must pass strengt-wise to be able to use the program, it’s all about how hard you can push yourself with good form (and even if you can’t do it right now, trust me, you’ll learn)

360 for 9 is better than 450 for 5 for two reasons:
First, it’s safer and you are more likely to use good form when the reps are a bit higher

Second, the recommended rep range for your first set of leg press (the heavy set) is 6-10, so five reps would fall under that

Next time, when you do your leg press first I suggest you take a brief moment to recover from the widowmaker set before even warming up for the deadlift (because you got to go all out on every set you’ll probably be trembling at this point and it’ll be hard to use proper form if you don’t rest first)

I’d suggest you to add 15-25 pounds to both sets (and shoot for higher reps) as you are on the high end of the rep range and you’ll have more to give when you are not fatigued from the deadlift

So, set your sights on, for example 380 pounds for 11 and a 27 rep widowmaker with 20 more pounds for next time (you’ll be able to do it, trust me)

Yeah, it’ll be two weeks, but the B2 and the B3 sessions build up your B1 performance as well (and the other way around too)

Could be MK 677

Or it might be the magic of doggcrapp training :wink:
(guys are known to put on 10-20 pounds during the first 2-3 months while they are getting leaner at the same time)

Just don’t get too keen on watching the scale, the mirror is usually a better way to estimate progress


Will try and avoid that. There is a forum on the internet that deals with DC more than anything else, but it isnt friendly to anyone under 200 lbs, and even then they’re rough.

I am keen on the idea of DC training if only because it challenges me in ways that I have never experienced. I am fast to adapt to things (gain weight easily, but usually lots of fat, cut fat easily), so if you are okay with chatting on it, I totally want to chat on it more and more.

How is it possible though:

This seems far fetched, and against the rules of CICO. What diet are they eating? I do not really feel like following Dante’s diet until I can cut fat a little bit, as a CKD works well for me and I think that carb cutoffs are not only dumb, but proven now in the year 2017 (I do remember that this training is almost 20 years old isnt it?) to be debunked.

if anything, the REVERSE stands to benefit a lifter. Increased sensitivity to carbs and the like after training, later in the evening, for recovery.

But that is the nerd in me coming out.

I am very interested in a controlled version of carb backloading, done with a proper calorie plan, when I can get down to around 12% bodyfat from my currently bloated self.

Thoughts? BTW, I am very talkative.
If that is good for you, great.


Oh man, I’m totally ok with it

(And I’m quite sorry that doggpound is what it is)

They are the guys who do everything either as Dante has written or they have hired a DC approved coach

So they stick to the macro pairings, carb cutoffs, green tea and eating a lot. (It has to do with faith in the program too, I don’t buy the carb cutoff thing either)
Now we have to remember that the DC approved coaches all have their own styles, for example I believe Ken Hill makes people eat more fat in the morning and carbs in the afternoon (smarter approach if you ask me)

In addition to that they are doing cardio on the rest days (as Dante wanted) and thus they are creating a massive G-Flux effect. (Basically means if you can eat 4000 calories instead of 2500 to gain weight, you’ll look better)

That does not answer the question of how do they get leaner while getting bigger at the same time?

Here’s how it goes in reality:

Let’s say a guy starts DC with a BF% of 15 at 220 pounds (so he has 33 pounds of fat)

He then gains 30 pounds, 3 of which is fat and 27 of muscle and water (remember, this is just an example)

So now he is 250 pounds and has 36 pounds of fat, but his bodyfat % is 14.4% opposed to the 15% earlier.

So basically they are gaining some fat mass but the amount of lean mass (water and muscle) they gain far outweighs the amount of fat.

Even if that wasn’t necessarily the case, a guy who is 275lbs with 12% body fat will look leaner than a guy who is 200lbs with 12% bf (or even 10%) because he us so much more muscular

Now for the second part, Dante has not put up diet that’s meant for the regular guy, so you have to write it yourself (I’ll help if you need it when the time comes)
He has put up a food log from one regular day I’d his life years ago. (About 7000 calories and 750g of protein) That is usually mistaken as the way Dante wanted everybody to eat.

I could tell you about how the DC diet goes exactly if you are not sure

But even though the DC diet is an individualistic thing, I’d say go for a fat % you are happy at before changing over to DC style of eating.

Remind me - wasn’t anabolic diet the approach where you start with a two week keto and then start to slowly add in carbs again? (In addition to the refeeds)
It has been a while since I read about it

Yeah, it’s old. Early 2000s if I remember correctly

In addition to increased carb sensitivity eating mainly fat and protein early in the day results in more metabolic flexibility and you’ll prime your body to use mainly fat as fuel throughout the day.

During the peri-workout time of the day carbs will aid in performance and recovery, after that they are there to fill your glycogen stores up for the next day.

Consumed at night they’ll help you sleep.

Yeah, I’m a nerd too.

I like to use a reversed DC approach to eating, I can tell you about that one too.

I think the reversed DC style I mentioned could suit you really well, as we can tweak it to basically fit anyone

My thoughts are that we will probably get along really greatly, I love discussing things as well.

Regarding your gameplan, I think it could work out beautifully.

If you want to hear about the tweaked DC diet (or the original) I’ll be happy to tell you. (Or if you want to discuss really anything)