T Nation

A Message from Thib


#1

Right now it is 15:10 ... or - 50 for me (50 minutes before workout). As you will learn from several upcoming posts, timing is EVERYTHING with the new training/supplement system we are designing so I will be gone for a short while until my workout has ended.

As Tim Patterson mentionned to me, when the workout/supplement process has started, there is no turning back... no delays are acceptable. Timing is everything!!!

  • 50 for me is 2 caps of Alpha-GPC
  • 40 today is 2 FINiBARs
  • 30 is 3 scoops of Surge Workout Fuel
  • 10 is 3 scoops of Surge Recovery
    During the workout 3 scoops of Anaconda

This is the protocol for my 3 main days of the week.


#2

Where'd the .02 grams BCAA's/lb bodyweight 30-60 minutes pre-workout go?

Can't wait till you release the new Superprogram! Can we assume that since it seems Anaconda has become such a spoken about factor in you peri-workout nutrition as you put the finishing touches on this superprogram that we won't see it released on T-Nation until Anaconda is available?


#3

How does all that liquid/food/calories so close to a workout affect you?


#4

That's over $50 a week in peri-workout supplements, not including the cost of Anaconda.

I'm sure the protocol works great, but that's borderline insane.


#5

Release Anaconda please!


#6

BCAA pulsing has been shown to be effective mostly because of the high dose of leucine it provides. In fact, the other two BCAAs could even interfere with leucine's action, which is why you needed such a high dose of BCAAs to get an anabolic effect and why as little as 5g of leucine by itself is effective at doing the same thing.

There is a good dose of leucine in Surge Workout Fuel, as well as phenylalanine and carbs which increase insulin release. Studies have shown that leucine and hyperinsulinemia is a very powerful anabolic signal.


#7

It's your right to believe so, but if such an investment can drastically increase your gains, it's worth it.

But you are probably right... this is not a strategy that is for everybody. It should be reserved for those who truly are passionate about building up their body and who will do whatever needs to be done to get the results they want.

I see our ''passion'' much like guys who are passionate about tuning cars. Some people will go to incredible lengths to build the craziest car possible, investing tens of thousands of dollars on a machine.

To many people THAT sounds crazy.... but I respect it. Why? Because it shows me that the guy has a passion and will do everything to live it.

Some people will be satisfied buying a nice car, others will want a machine that turns head.

Some people will be satisfied working out and slowly changing their body and health while others will not rest until they are freaks!


#8

Good question. Timing is key here.

FINiBARs contains mostly very slowly absorbed carbs, but slowly absorbed carbs that do not cause gastrointestinal distress. Furthermore when the carbs used in the mix are in the proper ratio they have a drastic osmotic effect: it pulls tons of water inside the muscle cells. Also, since the carbs from FINiBAR are superlow glycemic, there isn't much on an insulin spike... it would be too early at that point.

Surge Workout Fuel also contains the same slow carbs as FINiBARs, but also a small amount of faster absorbed carb as well as aminos which will cause a small release of insulin. There are a lot of osmotic elements in Surge Workout Fuel so that you will continue to pull water into the muscles as you get ready for your session.

Surge Recovery is basically an insulin shotgun You take it close to your workout to make sure that you are shuttling as much nutrients as possible to the muscles. Elevated insulin levels during hard training is also extremely anti-catabolic AND anabolic. So it will help you build more muscle, especially if you send in proteins at that point.

Surge Recovery is made mostly of whey hydrolysate while Anaconda contains a good dose of a special blend of casein hydrolysate which has powerful anabolic properties. Both these types of protein are absorbed basically at the speed of light, creating a state of hyperaminoacidemia. Now, combine hyperaminoacidemia, hyperinsulinemia, increased blood flow to the muscles and increased intramuscular pressure (another direct anabolic signal) you got one extreme growth trigger.

The problem arises when you screw up the timing. It happened to me once. I was getting ready for my workout, had my bars, my Surge Workout Fuel and I was getting ready to drink Surge Recovery. Turns out that Tim Patterson selected that time to have a conference call with Dave Tate and I. The conversation lasted around 50 minutes, I then drank my Surge Reocvery and went training.

It didn't go so well. The extra 50 minutes gave enough time to my body to store most of the injested products. When I drank the super insulin cocktail that is Surge Recovery I actually became hypoglycemic within 15 minutes of the start of the workout. Needless to say that it wasn't a really good session!

But yeah, timing is important. Some people will have to play around a bit depending on how your body is handling this amount of fluids.


#9

Edit


#10

So then when and how much do BCAA's fit into your daily regimen...if at all? Or is only leucine now? thanks.


#11

That's the thing. Anaconda is ready. It has been ready for close to a year. I'm using it, Dave Tate's crew is using it to break world record and some of my subjects are using it to grow larger by the hour.

The reason it's not out yet is that the production cost is too high. Most supplement companies' sole purpose is to make money. And to reach that goal they are often willing to compromise on some of the ingredients. They give the product a high impact publicity and make tons of dough... but you get screwed.

Tim Patterson is like me, like us. Yeah he's that recluse living on top of a mountain BUT he is the most passionate ironhead that I know. Heck, he often calls me up at 11pm just to talk training, and when we do we're like two little kids!

Yes the boss wants to make money. Let's be honest! But first and foremost he wants to make stuff that works... that do bizarre things in the human body!

You know what, Anaconda might actually never be sold. And the boss is fine with that. Biotest's storing facilities are full of supplements that have never been sold, but that work great and are actually used by top level athletes. These products are custom made for them.

Anyway, back to Anaconda, the ingredients in it are expensive. Especially its central element which is a special blend of casein hydrolysate that is just more powerful than any other protein available (yet). But that ingredient alone would make the product cost-prohibitive for most.

Biotest COULD compromise and use regular casein hydrolysate, which is fairly easy to find and not that expensive, but it's not the same thing. It will just not work as well. And to us (to me at least) it would kinda be like settling for going out with the stubby girl next door 'with the good personality' after having spent a few months with the hottest babe in town!

So what will happen? Who knows. I'm currently working on building an Anaconda-less protocol, just in case it never comes out.

But for now let's hope that I'm wasting my time with that last one!


#12

I prefer leucine. But BCAAs can still have their place, especially with individuals who are prone to chronic fatigue...

BCAAs can actually decrease the risk of central/systemic fatigue. So during periods of super high intensity of training, when the nervous system is at a high risk, BCAAs can be very effective.

It's not always about the muscle. Maximizing gains must go through the muscular system, the nervous system and the hormonal system.


#13

So would a combo of BCAA/leucine supplementation work? Like loading BCAA's before, and leucine during/after a workout, or some other combo?

Also, I saw on bodybuilding.com that if your ratio of BCAA's are off, then you cannot get much of a result. Here is the quote:

"To make the most of what you eat, you need two parts L-Leucine and two parts L-Valine for every one part of L-Isoleucine. You'll fail to get optimal results if you fall short of meeting this exact ratio."

Is this true, or just some outdated belief?

Thanks!


#14

Since there are tons of studies showing that leucine by itself is very anabolic, then I would call the above info outdated.


#15

Ever have any problems with feeling sick/throwing up during a workout after ingesting that much pre-workout? I'd love to experiment properly with this type of protocol but have no doubt it would come straight back up after about 3 sets. Edit: I'll post this on the proper thread.


#16

I know people who spend $400-500 a month on supps and they are no bigger nor stronger than your usual gym rat.

Supps help for sure, but you still need to train right and to train with intensity.

You do the best you can with what you have. Nothing more. Nothing less. As a father of an 8 month old and a husband of over a year you need to know what your priorities are. Unless you have a lot of disposable income available you're not going to be able to spend that much on supps.

I've put on 20lbs of lean mass since September. Went up 20 pounds in max bench (200 to 220 at 160bw) in January alone. I use nothing more than a little ON whey to help meet protein requirements. I'm a bit of a noob, so that will explain a lot of the gains.

There are three ways to do things:

  1. The absolutely perfect way.
  2. The absolutely horrible shit way.
  3. The realistic way.

Hopefully your realistic way is closer to perfect than horrible. As long as you're eating right and training with damn fucking intensity you should be closer to #1 than #2.

I've seen dudes in the gym do nothing but bench and arms and never do deads or squats. I can count on two hands the number of people I've ever seen squat or deadlift in the commerical gym I go to but hundreds more doing chest. These people will fail.

I've talked to people who do chest, shoulders, arms on back to back to back days and they wonder why their tris don't grow or get strong. I've seen people who want to get STRONG yet always do exercises for 'da pump' with partial range of motion.

There are a lot of very stupid people in the gym. It's not their fault. They are just confused about intensity, effort, and results.

If you aren't succeeding, you are failing. Get in the gym with a fucking plan. If that shit ain't working then why continue it? Doesn't matter what plan or what supp you are on. Succeed or die trying.


#17

Thanks for the pep talk, but I'm not really sure what this has to do with anything.

Very inspirational though?


#18

What are you doing for your none main days?


#19

Completely agree with you on that---but I think you might be forgetting the third group of people---people who are passionate but poor for the moment.

Maybe life dealt them some financial setbacks, maybe they simply are students and money-poor but time-rich, or maybe they are paying off other debt.

I fit into this category at the moment, and I know for myself that 200$ a month (50$ a week) is too much for me to spend on anything unessential for me to make ends meet right now. It's too large a chunk of my interim income.

That said, I'm really looking forward to this article...


#20

Same thing but 2 scoops on everthing instead of 3.

BTW, I am now taking Alpha-GPC 90 minutes prior instead of 50 minutes prior and I bumped the dose up to 3-4 caps