T Nation

A Matter of Ethics...


So I heard a rumor a while ago that someone I worked with had committed a murder, a particularly gruesome one in which he decapitated and then dismembered his wife. The guy who told me this was one who had lived in his town before, but of course, I couldn't verify it, so I let it die.

Now, a year later, my old man (who works with both of us) found out that the story is actually true, and that the details are gruesome and sadistic. Evidently, he served his time, and now he works with me.

What do you do in this situation? Women work with the place I work, and this guy is kind of crazy (in a scizophrenic kind of way, not in the good way). If something happened, and I never mentioned it to any of these other people, it would make for some rough nights.

What do you think? I've thought about this for a while, and can come up with no good ideas.


He cut his wife's head off and he's not serving a triple life sentence or something similar?


If this is true, it's a matter of public record, so I would tell your co-workers about it. I don't see any reason why you shouldn't.

We had a similar case in the town where I live. A girl my wife was working with began dating an older man. Turns out, he just got out of prison and was doing time for murdering his wife. A lot of people who knew about his past tried to tell the girl to dump him and she would not listen to them, until one day they pulled the information up on the internet and showed her. They are no longer dating.

Maybe that's the way to go, if you can document this case, via police/court records, do it, and then show your co-workers. By having the proof to back you up, you do not look like a loser if this does happen to be a rumor.


I don't even understand the question. What do you owe the guy? He's a sick, murdering fuck. People need to know that. Are you worried about hurting his feelings?


And then the guy finds out who leaked the info, starts conspiring God knows what, and the sick, sadistic ideas that are in his head keep growing until it consumes him and he develops an elaborate plan for gruesome revenge.

There's no telling what can make him snap. It's one thing to think about doing something like he did, but he was actually able to do it, and to his own wife (if the story is, in fact, true).

I don't know if anyone can ever be reformed from that kind of behavior, and I also don't understand why he's out of prison.


Somehow, a court thought that the penalty they gave was enough.

It's a strange fucking situation. I admit that I think the second he did that, he gave up his "normal" life.


How old is this murder? Maybe they let the guy go because he was 80 years old and much less of a threat?

That's about the only plausible explanation I can imagine. Still, it seems fucked up to me that he'd be back on the streets, and - in your estimation - acting something nutso. Even a half cripple with one foot in the grave could seriously harm someone.

I suppose the argument can be made that he just had it out for his wife, and everyone else should be safe. But to decapitate and dismember her shows a definite sickness of which I'd be wary.

You should probably tell your boss what you've heard, rather than your coworkers. Let them decide what to do and not jeopardize yourself by spreading the information. The probably already know of his past, but if they see that other workers (you) are concerned, something might be done.


Interesting how a sex offender has to register with the state (rightly so) and spend the rest of his life in a database, while an axe murderer can just go his merry way after his time is up. I wonder how he answered the "Have you ever been convicted of a felony? If yes, please provide details below" question on the job application?

The people he works with have a right to know, no doubt about it. However, I would be hesitant about taking it in my own hands if I were you. My recommendation would be to have a private and confidential conversation with your boss (if, by some miracle, your company managed to not find out about it when they hired him, they really do need to know). By going this route, you take the burden off of yourself and allow the proper authorities to handle it as they see fit. By doing it yourself you just risk making any potential situation that much worse, in my opinion.


What pisses me off the most about this story is that the guy was ever allowed to leave prison in the first place.


you better kill him, before he kills you!! hurry, i'll wait........


I'm sure the employer knows about it, therefore it woud be at their discretion to alert employees.

You may actualy get in to some shit if you start spreading this info. People may become disturbed and look elsewhere for employment. That wouldn't bode well for you.

As far as ethics go- what ethical obligation do you have to fellow employees? If it is not your position to disperse personelle information, then you probably shouldn't go there. Another thing to consider is that the murder may have been part of his mental health/ medical condition, and therefore private.

Then again, there is probably some ethicist somewhere that would say that you should tell everybody.

Ethics is like a big bag of snakes.


The cop who arrested him is, ironically, my neighbor.

He said the guy probably served about 18 years, and he thought it was fucked up that the guy was out. Sometimes I hate New Jersey.


The place where I work gets many...disreputable characters. I think what you said may be the way to go.


I'd be careful about trying to have a confidential conversation with your boss. Not everyone is an upstanding sort of person that will honor your desire for confidentiality.

I recall talking to the main office one day, and then being the topic of conversation the next day on the job. It was not very comfortable.

Hey, most people talk to someone, share their secrets. It's very possible that everyone will find out what you talked about, given the nature of the topic, and that you'll be the only one who doesn't know that clubber scissorhands knows you ratted him out.

You need to do what you need to do to be able to sleep at night and look yourself in the mirror. However, that doesn't mean you have to throw caution to the wind either...


They had to let him go to make room for the guy they busted selling steroids.


As said before, this is public record. If you choose to talk about this; a choice totally on you, make sure you have some documentation. Otherwise, you'll appear as a rumor monger and full of shit.


That is a tricky situation. The system does not always work, and we have to look after ourselves.

Some things to consider though ... guessing at why they consider it OK to have let him out.

  1. It WAS a grusome murder and almost certainly was something to do with the guy being insane, he is probably medicated now. This is just a guess on my part but he probably has had 18 years of observation whilst in (wherever he was) so probably the medication is working. Although possibly he might forget to take it now he is out. This is speculation on my part, of course. But you said he acted crazy and that all makes sense to me. People schitz. can go from perfectly normal to 100% murdering lunatics and back again and not even remember the murdering times. It is a terrible sad thing, and a dangerous thing. But they usually do NOT let those people out again. Then again in USA maybe they do.

  2. I believe statistically, people who murder their wives are not likely to murder again, it is usually a wife-specifc thing. Obviously there are exceptions to this statistic, and also, I am unsure of how accurate that trend is. But it is probably something they took into consideration with his case.

I think everyone should know/be told. That will make things hard for the guy and that is sad, but really, that's the way it has to go. Really, HE should be telling everyone, come clean, make a fresh start. That should be part of his punishment and rehabilitation.

It is hard to trust the system because the system does not always work.

Glad I am not in a similar situation, then again, maybe I am and nobody has told me about the insane murderers around me.

I would probably speak to the employer first who probably already knows about this and has more information that might ease your mind.


I have mixed feelings about this.

On the one hand, I understand your concern for your fellow workers, especially if this guy is acting unbalanced.

On the other hand, I have a problem with essentially giving people life sentences by causing them to lose jobs or be social pariahs for the rest of their lives, after having served their time.

If recidivism is that big of a worry, never let them out of jail in the first place.

Keep in mind that if you do make this known, the guy may not have his job for long. You don't know the details of the case, I imagine, nor do you know what he has or hasn't done in the meantime.


My old man just got home from the job, and told me that he informed the owner's son (a guy in his 30's- not kid). The son was dumbfounded; as far as he knew, the guy was "married before, but in some kind of abusive relationship". Apparently he didn't mention the whole "hacksaw to the neck" thing.

To make things worse, this guy is "dating" a woman who works in the same section (the nursery of a garden center). This broad is also nearly schizophrenic, and seems barely able to take care of herself. She talks to inanimate objects, mumbles incoherently, and (ironically, hah) talks about her Church all the time.

Like I said, I found out the whole thing is true....my neighbor is the cop that arrested him.

I couldn't make this shit up if I tried...I'm actually speechless. Which, if you knew me, is a big fuckin rarity.


wow. hm. thats fucked up.