T Nation

A Little Gun History

In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.


In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.


Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945 a total of 13 million Jews and others, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.


China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.


Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.


Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.


Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one million educated people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.


Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century because they were disarmed under the guise of gun control: 56 million.


It has now been a few years since gun owners in Australia were forced by a new law to surrender 640,381 personal firearms, to be destroyed by their own government, a program costing Australian taxpayers more than $500 million dollars. The first year’s results are now in:

Australia-wide, homicides are up 3.2 percent

Australia-wide, assaults are up 8.6 percent

Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44 percent)!

In the state of Victoria alone, homicides with firearms are now up 300 percent. Note that while the law-abiding citizens turned their arms in, the criminals did not, and criminals still possess their guns!

While figures over the previous 25 years showed a steady decrease in armed robbery with firearms, this has changed drastically upward in the past 12 months, since criminals now are guaranteed that their prey is unarmed.

There has also been a dramatic increase in break-ins and assaults on the ELDERLY. Australian politicians are at a loss to explain how public safety has decreased, after such monumental effort and expense were expended. The Australian experience and the other historical facts above prove that gun control does nothing to stop crime.

You won’t see this data on the US evening news, or hear politicians disseminating this information.

Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control laws adversely affect only the law-abiding citizens.

Take note my fellow Americans, before it’s too late! The next time someone talks in favor of gun control laws, please remind them of this history lesson. When we own firearms, we are ‘citizens’. Without them, we are ‘subjects’.

During WWII the Japanese decided not to invade America because they knew most Americans were ARMED!

If you value your freedom, please spread this anti-gun control message to all of your friends. In short, “It isn’t about guns; it’s about Freedom!”

[quote]Hagar wrote:
During WWII the Japanese decided not to invade America because they knew most Americans were ARMED!
[/quote]

Indeed. In fact, Yamamoto stated the following:


“You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass.”
----Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto

Assuming Americans retain their right to bear arms, it is quite strange that so many individuals within the US remain so terrified of foreign enemies, both real and imagined. The United States will not be conquered from without, but rather will destroy itself from within via an economic regulatory-control apparatus and an interventionist foreign policy brought about by a Big Government-oriented political establishment.

Ancient Rome suffered a similar fate, particularly in relation to government interventionist policies in the economy.

The Ancient Suicide of the West:
http://www.fee.org/publications/the-freeman/article.asp?aid=2389

[quote]cloakmanor wrote:


“You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass.”
----Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto

[/quote]

That’s a bad ass quote; I’ve never heard it before…Almost brings a tear to my eye…

The KKK used to push for gun control to prevent black folks from having them.
cloakmanor- the message i get form television is that the average person is afraid of guns and that only crazy fuckers have them (now i know thats not true but its what i get from TV).
Hagar- look up concealed carry laws especially in florida, and crime rates etc.

[quote]rander wrote:
The KKK used to push for gun control to prevent black folks from having them.
[/quote]

For a little bit of primary source info to back this up, check out this .pdf about Racist Roots of Gun Laws in Georgia found at www.georgiacarry.org.

http://www.georgiacarry.org/cms/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/racist-roots-of-ga-gun-laws.pdf

mike

Thanks rander, I’ll check it out. I’ve heard some stories on the radio. A few years ago an old man their in FL stopped an armed robber when he pulled his piece on him. Old guy told the reporter “I’m always prepared for trouble.” lol.

There was some court cases in CA for racist distribution of concealed weapons permit. Some residents of black neighborhoods could not get them. I have nothing against background checks and 18/21 year old age limits, but these are law abiding citizens. No wonder crime is so high in many of those neighborhoods.

[quote]Hagar wrote:
Thanks rander, I’ll check it out. I’ve heard some stories on the radio. A few years ago an old man their in FL stopped an armed robber when he pulled his piece on him. Old guy told the reporter “I’m always prepared for trouble.” lol.

There was some court cases in CA for racist distribution of concealed weapons permit. Some residents of black neighborhoods could not get them. I have nothing against background checks and 18/21 year old age limits, but these are law abiding citizens. No wonder crime is so high in many of those neighborhoods. [/quote]

Well, I don’t know about 21, but 18 seems reasonable. But when you’re 18, you have the full rights of a citizen. Period. End of paragraph. Not that a concealed carry permit is okay in the first place. The only time it is acceptable for a state to have a permit required for concealed carry is when they have state-level preemption allowing for open carry of firearms unlicensed.

mike

[quote]Mikeyali wrote:
For a little bit of primary source info to back this up, check out this .pdf about Racist Roots of Gun Laws in Georgia found at www.georgiacarry.org.

http://www.georgiacarry.org/cms/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/racist-roots-of-ga-gun-laws.pdf

mike[/quote]

I thought only open minded liberals were for disarming the Negros. Guess I was wrong. Who’s the racist now?

Good find Mikeyali. I wouldn’t of ever found this out on CNN.

[quote]Mikeyali wrote:
Well, I don’t know about 21, but 18 seems reasonable. But when you’re 18, you have the full rights of a citizen. Period. End of paragraph. Not that a concealed carry permit is okay in the first place. The only time it is acceptable for a state to have a permit required for concealed carry is when they have state-level preemption allowing for open carry of firearms unlicensed.

mike[/quote]

Your right. 18 it is.

21 is just the present law for handgun ownership in CA. Because of this I had to settle with an assault rifle. Mwahahaha Nice gun with a collapsable stock. Loved shooting that thing. I had a pair of 21 rd clips and you could take it to the range and buy exploding targets. For my 21ist bday I got a sig p226.

Our government wouldn’t round us all up. Therefore, we don’t need guns. We’re in a time of war people, do you want terrorists having guns? Shessh.

(Same argument used to defend the Patriot Acts suspension of Habeas Corpus)

http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp this may have some interesting stuff theyve edited it recently so who knows.

[quote]Beowolf wrote:
Our government wouldn’t round us all up. Therefore, we don’t need guns. We’re in a time of war people, do you want terrorists having guns? Shessh.

(Same argument used to defend the Patriot Acts suspension of Habeas Corpus)[/quote]

Good one.


The Chief of Police stated the cowardly psycho who shot up his Mall used a Simonov Carbine (SKS), but ABC News is putting up a stock photo of an AK-47 machinegun, implying that is what was used…But there is no bias in the media, right? I am so fed up with the antigun lies and bias these elitist twirps foist off on the public…Disgusting…

The reporter for ABC, also said the pendejos killer was depressed about a whole lot of things. You, know the standard 19yr old schitt. GF, broke up. Lost job. No real direction. The reporter says that justifies sucide but not homicide.

Agree, the media is biased on guns. Agree, the media and there eltists handlers want our guns. They’re (input whom or group you want) afraid of Americans who want to live free and are armed. Why? Can’t control us or horde (sp?) us like they want to.

The bith here is I sound like a CT’er.

Good job on the history listen of guns. Why shouldn’t honest citizens have guns. After all the criminals and gov’t (local, state and fed) do. I’m not so, sure I trust those groups entirly with my safety.

They’ve even already established that its not the cops job to protect us. I dont remember the case name but some judge/jury or something ruled that. if it was then if someone got hurt or robbed they could sue the Police/State for damages.

As president, I plan to institute my “Catch 22” plan for gun control. If you want a gun, you can’t have one. But, if you don’t have a gun, you are free to buy as many as you like.

I don’t particularly care if you keep a gun at home for self defense. I do, however, get annoyed with people who have watched too many John Wayne movies and don’t see the potential danger of interlocking lines of fire in public places.

For the sake of debate, I must provide an example that will annoy… umm… every single person that has posted thus far. Canada has some of the strictest gun laws in the world (despite this there is still a shit-load of legal gun ownership). Over the past two decades, gun crimes have consistently been on the decline in Canada. However, what has been on the rise is gang related crime. Where are these guns coming from? From the US of course, the majority coming from states with the loosest gun regulations. Arms dealers repeatedly purchase a substantial number of guns from licensed firearms dealers and sell them to gang members in areas with stricter gun control (e.g. NY city, Canada).

Now, 2nd Amendment activists always loudly proclaim that every measure must be taken to keep the guns out of the hands of criminals. Then how come the NRA lobbies to block any attempt by the ATF to crack down on these gun runners that buy guns legally and sell them to criminals at enormous profits, or the gun shops that repeatedly sell bulk amounts of guns to the same individuals as soon as the previous purchase can be unloaded. The NRA has even successfully lobbied for massive cuts to the ATF budget.

Is this behavior, on the part of the NRA, that allows the illegal arms market thrive and people like David Koresh to acquire massive arsenals really about the right to bare arms, or is it a result of being blinded by ideology?

If it is the later, I welcome those RADICAL elements of the NRA to put their illegally modified UZIs into their mouthes and turn themselves into blood sprinklers.

BTW Hagar,

Thank you for starting your post (almost) with the correct death toll from the first Holocaust of the 20th century.  In fact, the Armenian Genocide would make a good new thread topic. 

[quote]johnnybravo30 wrote:
I don’t particularly care if you keep a gun at home for self defense. I do, however, get annoyed with people who have watched too many John Wayne movies and don’t see the potential danger of interlocking lines of fire in public places.
[/quote]

Yes, because there’s such an epidemic of people being hit by accidental fire. God forbid we had a few armed citizens fighting back in Nebraska. I mean, someone might have gotten shot!

[quote]

Now, 2nd Amendment activists always loudly proclaim that every measure must be taken to keep the guns out of the hands of criminals. Then how come the NRA lobbies to block any attempt by the ATF to crack down on these gun runners that buy guns legally and sell them to criminals at enormous profits, or the gun shops that repeatedly sell bulk amounts of guns to the same individuals as soon as the previous purchase can be unloaded. The NRA has even successfully lobbied for massive cuts to the ATF budget. [/quote]

Give me an example. Many people like myself feel underrepresented by the NRA because they don’t sufficiently stand up for our rights. The BATFE is bad for several reasons. consider that they are the people that seem to think it’s okay to throw you in prison for having a rifle barrel that is an inch too short. But I suppose if you want some more entertaining reading you can go onto this:

http://www.atfabuse.com/enter.html

So yeah, if you want to protect America’s Gestapo then feel free.

For the sake of accuracy, let’s substitute the NRA for the JPFO. Tell me why modifying an Uzi should be illegal in the first place. If you can’t give me a reason, bear in mind it will be the BATFE that is the first to kick my door down and shoot my dog to lock me up for daring to wish to own an “illegally modified weapon”.

Okay, actually let’s move on. I don’t think you truly grasp the insanity of our gun laws. Let’s talk SKS’s and AK-47’s.

178.39 Assembly of semiautomatic rifles or shotguns.

(a) No person shall assemble a semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun using more than 10 of the imported parts listed in paragraph © of this section if the assembled firearm is prohibited from importation under section 925(d)(3) as not being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes.

© For purposes of this section, the term “imported parts” are:

(1) Frames, receivers, receiver castings, forgings or stampings
(2) Barrels
(3) Barrel extensions
(4) Mounting blocks (trunions)
(5) Muzzle attachments
(6) Bolts
(7) Bolt carriers
(8) Operating rods
(9) Gas pistons
(10) Trigger housings
(11) Triggers
(12) Hammers
(13) Sears
(14) Disconnectors
(15) Buttstocks
(16) Pistol grips
(17) Forearms, handguards
(18) Magazine bodies
(19) Followers
(20) Floorplates

So one of my Ak-47’s could be illegal if I happened to have a piece of PLASTIC that was imported instead of made in the USA. DAMN ME! I’M SUCH AN EVIL MAN. I should be locked up. And you know who will be there at me door? That’s right…your beloved ATF.

mike

[quote]Mikeyali wrote:

Yes, because there’s such an epidemic of people being hit by accidental fire. God forbid we had a few armed citizens fighting back in Nebraska. I mean, someone might have gotten shot!

Give me an example. Many people like myself feel underrepresented by the NRA because they don’t sufficiently stand up for our rights. The BATFE is bad for several reasons. consider that they are the people that seem to think it’s okay to throw you in prison for having a rifle barrel that is an inch too short. But I suppose if you want some more entertaining reading you can go onto this:

http://www.atfabuse.com/enter.html

So yeah, if you want to protect America’s Gestapo then feel free.

Make a point here. Which ideology? What is so awful about citizens owning short barreled rifles or shotguns? What is so awful about me wanting to own a machine gun? Why shouldn’t I be able to own a full arsenal if I want to? The second amendment is there to protect us from the government. Since that is the case, shouldn’t I want to own a lot of guns so I can hand a few SKS’s off to some buddies or even you when the shit hits the fan?

For the sake of accuracy, let’s substitute the NRA for the JPFO. Tell me why modifying an Uzi should be illegal in the first place. If you can’t give me a reason, bear in mind it will be the BATFE that is the first to kick my door down and shoot my dog to lock me up for daring to wish to own an “illegally modified weapon”.

Okay, actually let’s move on. I don’t think you truly grasp the insanity of our gun laws. Let’s talk SKS’s and AK-47’s.

178.39 Assembly of semiautomatic rifles or shotguns.

(a) No person shall assemble a semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun using more than 10 of the imported parts listed in paragraph © of this section if the assembled firearm is prohibited from importation under section 925(d)(3) as not being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes.

© For purposes of this section, the term “imported parts” are:

(1) Frames, receivers, receiver castings, forgings or stampings
(2) Barrels
(3) Barrel extensions
(4) Mounting blocks (trunions)
(5) Muzzle attachments
(6) Bolts
(7) Bolt carriers
(8) Operating rods
(9) Gas pistons
(10) Trigger housings
(11) Triggers
(12) Hammers
(13) Sears
(14) Disconnectors
(15) Buttstocks
(16) Pistol grips
(17) Forearms, handguards
(18) Magazine bodies
(19) Followers
(20) Floorplates

So one of my Ak-47’s could be illegal if I happened to have a piece of PLASTIC that was imported instead of made in the USA. DAMN ME! I’M SUCH AN EVIL MAN. I should be locked up. And you know who will be there at me door? That’s right…your beloved ATF.

mike
[/quote]

…and spark debate I did. This is obviously an emotional topic for you as you went way beyond the things I mentioned. Please re-read my very first sentence before you put me on your “People I won’t give guns to when the shit hits the fan” list.

  1. My first paragraph was not meant to be scientific. Just a personal annoyance with the societal effects of propagandistic John Wayne (who some would call a war dodger) movies where rounds shot from the hip always hit the bad guys, and people die quickly and quietly and their last words are how glad they were to have died for their country.

  2. Don’t assume I have any love for the ATF, or the DEA, or the CIA, NSA, FBI, etc. (The CIA is to me what the ATF is to you). But, I gave a very clear example where allowing the ATF to crack down on these arms dealers and unethical gun shops would make a sizable dent in the illegal arms trade. Opposing the ATF doing its job for a change by citing previous abuses is an ad hominem logical fallacy.

*Note - Ethical gun retailers have the common sense not to sell some guy from out of town 10-12 handguns per month the way shops like the Arrowhead Pawn Shop (4th worst offender) in Georgia does. 54% of legally purchased guns that are used in crimes come from less than 1% of the 80,000 gun retailers in the US.

  1. An example of NRA influence on government policy? The Tiarht Amendment (Todd Tiarht, R-Kansas, lifetime NRA member) to a House Appropriations Bill. Provisions of the amendment made sure that no federal money could be used to disclose to the public the contents of ATF�??s gun trace database. This prevented the ATF from publishing reports that that show where crime guns are coming from. This blocks the small percentage of retailers that are providing the guns that are going to criminals, which Wayne Lapierre insists must be prevented, from public scrutiny and local law enforcement investigation.

  2. I didn’t give any indication that I thought Uzis shouldn’t be modified. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if the strange and illogical modification law you informed me of was the the result of some congressman being in the pocket of some gun manufacturer. It makes no sense as anything but method for eliminating foreign competition.

    But to non-gun folk, you know its the modification to fully automatic that worries them.

  3. You asked me to make a point about ideology. It was an open question that I’m interested in hearing opinions on. But you completely missed the context of the question. The context is my example of NRA actions that are preventing action being taken against the illegal arms trade, not legal gun ownership.

[quote]IvanDmitritch wrote:
cloakmanor wrote:


“You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass.”
----Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto

That’s a bad ass quote; I’ve never heard it before…Almost brings a tear to my eye…
[/quote]

Likewise. That’s awesome.