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a little advice please


I am 20 years old and have been lifting seriously for around 2 years. Initially the size came quickly even though my diet was no where near what it should have been. Now that the initial spurt is over I am having trouble putting on size. I have a mostly ectomorphic build minus the narrow shoulders and chest. I know it will be hard for me to gain, but I have stepped up my diet. I eat around 3200 cal. per day, 200 gr. of protein, and plenty of carbs. I am 5'9 and weigh 180. I am looking to get to 200. Any advice would be appreciated.


Hey Irnfreak,

firstly i think at 180lbs u need bump that protein to at least 250g and you need to eating around 300g-350g of carb.

These are estimates but you should look at the massive eating article and combine that with one of the training routines like German volume training, OVT, Anti Bodybuilding Hypertrophy, Quattro Dynamo. You can find them all by using the search engine

I am trying to get to around 200lbs with 7-8% bf, last time i weighed myself i was 182 at 10.7%.

I have a regime of where i bulk and then cut when my bf is around 15 and then bulk and cut.

Eventually i will get there.........i hope :).

I wouldn't suggest any pro-hormones or pro steroids or anything. Maybe you could try some creatine

good luck


Bump your protein intake up. try to get 1.5 grams per pound of "lean" body weight. Also, Try raising your total caloric intake to between 4000 and 4500. After that, lift heavy and often.


Double your protein intake.


A little more detail on your workout progarm would be helpful. How often do you change your routine? Mostly Iso or compound? heavy or light? intensity? overtrainning? undertrainning? muscle memory issues if same routine has been used forever?


without much thought (of which I am the master), it could be as simple as changing your program. Maybe different exercise, different rep range, different tempo? Everyone gains easy at the start on even a bad program. Especially at your age as they might be physically maturing later, I know I did. More info would be great.


I appreciate your advice. I will give you a little more info. I am on a five day split right now it goes as follows

Monday- Legs
Tuesday- chest, biceps
Wednesday- off
Thursday- tri's and shoulders
Friday- Back and Biceps
Saturday- Tri's and chest
Sunday- off

I know I have some strange combinations here but I was trying to switch it up. It seems as though I should hit back more but I had someone tell me they thought I was overtraining. How much is too much? As far as reps I rarely go above 12 rep set. Usually a 10,8,6,4,2, but on a rare occasion I will do 15,12,10,8,6 to try and shock the muscles. I am taking creatine now as well as animal stack which suprisingly has gave me some good strength gains but the sheer mass is still slow to come. A pound here and a half pound there, I know it wont come overnight, but I was just wondering if you guys could help


Have you read the "massive eating reloaded" article this week? If you are not gaining weight every 2 weeks just up the calories in 250cal increments and be PATIENT:)


I'd say boost your protein intake, eat, eat, eat, and finally change your routine to do more reps in the 85-90% of your 1RM area. If you want size and strength, doing 12 and 15 rep sets aren't going to do it for you. It's like running a marathon vs a sprint. Start trying 10 sets w/ 3 reps instead of the pyramid you're currently doing.


I too am an ectomorph. First you must eat more total calories. There is no way around it. Ectomorphs require tremendous calories to consistantly put on muscle. Second you must increase your protein intake. I am 32yrs. old and started training seriously at age 19. The only times I noticed big increases in str. and muscle gain were when my meat intake was very high. Increasing protein intake (beyond your currentintake) through protein powders will not work in my experience. Third eat salmon, it is a great protein source obviously, but more important is you need lots of healthy fats/omega 3's to gain good muscle weight, fight off over training and keep T levels high. Sleep well and stay away from soy! Good luck and lift HEAVY!


Im sorry, but I either don't understand the program or need more info. You train tris on thursday and saturday? Chest on saturday and tuesday? Are you doing different reps and different sets? Wont your tri workout on thursday hinder your chest workout on saturday, esp if you do tri's before chest on the saturday? If you are doing 10, 8, 6, 4 and 2's, then are the 2's your only max set? If not, then for variety why not drop the weight instead of the reps?


Although this has already been said, the most important point is obvious. EAT!!! I just did some rough calculations and you should be taking in around 4000 kcals per day. Being an ectomorph that's even being conservative. As JB's article mentioned this week, start increasing your intake slowly and see how your body responds.

As far as training, I'd suggest cutting down to 4 days per week (i.e., Mon, Tues, Thurs, Fri) and focussing on the compound movements. Drop the isolation training (i.e., arms, calves, etc) and spend your time benching, squatting, and deadlifting. Of course, rows, dips, chins, and military presses aren't going to kill you either.

All in all, don't let being an ectomorph stop you from exploding with growth. Though being an ectomorph is a real phenomenon, too many people let it become a mindset.

Best of luck. Now go eat.


Man no offense but that progarm isnt any good it might actaully be counter productive.

By the looks of it, you are too focused on arms and mirror muscles like chest. Put legs twice a week, unless your wheels are already freaky. Working legs often also increases test release by the body naturally, and as a t-man you dont need to be told the wonders of Test. Now if i would recommend a routine change it would tbe something like this.(note: do this only for a month cause this progarm does sort of overtrain the wheels, and secondly you should always change your routine every 8 or so weeks to keep the muscles guessing) .

Day1- legs (Squats, DLs, Lunges, Press)

Day2- chest and shoulders (presses, raises, rows etc you know the drill all compound moves)


day4-- Back and arms ( DLs, pulls, chins, rows, curls, skulls and hammer)

Day5-- Legs and one or two excerises of whatever body part you feel is lacking.

Day6 and 7 should be off, to allow you to recover and grow. Play whatever sport you play or do ab work on one of these days to keep the circulation up so you can recover for your next week:)

It will be a pain training the wheels this hard and you wont get the joy you get when trainning mirror muscles but do this for a month and you should notice gains.


hey man. i weighed 180 pounds somewhere in october, and by the end of january i was 205 and that is after a 2 week lifting break. the program that i use is
monday - back
tuesday - chest/tri's
wed - off/ab work
thurs - bicep/legs
friday - off/ab work
saturday - all upper body/concentrate on lats

you can do the saturday workout on fridays. i do this because my college gym is closed on sat. (terrible i know) here are some links




the second link is where i got my workout from. if you have any more questiong, send me a PM. hope that helped man. good luck!


I've been doing quattro dynamo for a few weeks now, maybe 6 or 7. Bulked up some.

Ecotmorph too, I weigh 155, been lifitng werious for year and a half. Weighed 140 back in October. Better results with that than other things I tried.

I get more calories than you. 3200 is a little low for an ecto wanting to bulk, I think. Maybe more protein too.



At the beginning of his bodybuilding career Arnold was an ectomorph ...
At 180 you are not skinny. Try to move to 190 lbs,possibly with no more than 15% bodyfat, that is already a reasonable bodyweight at 5'9". You have already got useful suggestions concerning nutrition. You need a proper recovery as well: weighttrain only 3 or 4 times/week, never 3 days in a row. Forget all those triceps,biceps stuff.Try to add 3-5% more weight at each workout to squat,bench,deadlift. Learn how to periodize your training.
After years of training you could perform a 300 lbs Bench, 400 lbs Squat, 500 lbs Deadlift: as a consequence your arms will significantly grow.
Try Ian's King Bulk Building workout-previous issues No 227.


Thanks for all the advice. I didnt expect to get so much input. I will put it to use


Here is a picture of me at 162 pounds. I have since put on about 12 pounds and my chest is not quite as pathetic, but still is lacking. Any other info. would be greatly appreciated.


Use a training program here such as OVT ABBH or Ian Kings 12 week upper and lower body programs. Work your Arms less as they are much bigger than the rest of you. Also make sure you are atleast doing squats and deadlifts for legs. You origonal program is all over the place. Oh pendulum bodybuilding or powerlifting would be great for you also. Good luck and get some recent pics up.