[quote]MrZsasz wrote:
Jazz_Man1898 wrote:
Well MrZsasz, you certainly bring up a good point about asking the question why. However, i dont think that it would solve much in terms of what we are talking about here.
Ex. If a newbie asked himself why he should take 500mg/week over 250/week, the only think common sense would tell him is 500mg is more that 250mg so I can get more from 500 than from 250mg. Or adversly, 250mg may be safer than 500mg. Well by this rationalle, 2000mg would yeild more than 1000mg, or 1000mg may be safer than 2000mg.
As a noob, how would he know the difference unless he asks? Futhermore, this question of why is what gets most noobs flamed in the first place! He asks why 500mg over 300mg and gets flamed or told to search through the threads for this answer which leaves him back at the point I talked about earlier!
Prime example, I started a thread a while ago about the possibility taking Primo Depot instead of taking Test as a first cycle. Now in my reasearch, I read that Primo was considered one of the safest compounds. Even Danny D suggeted this in the USH 2. So with safety in mind, I asked “WHY” isnt a compound like this recommended to a newbie instead of test for a first cycle. I got everything but an answer and was futhermore ridiculed in other threads because of it!
And you bring up looking into science and reasoning. Well the “science” and reasoning behind the Test Stasis/Taper seems to be very legit. But so does the “science” and reasoning behind the traditional method of PCT. Both seem to have worked for some. The arguement comes in when one has worked better for an individual than the other did. This could have been for a number of reasons!
And check this out, on the front page of T-Nation is Cy’s Juicer’s SAT. One of the questions basically asks about a taper being legit or not. In the answer portion, he says no. Now if im remembering correctly, P22 said in one of his threads about the taper that he consulted with Cy on this method before suggesting it. Now this is not to impune either of these guys because i belive they are very knowlegable and one can learn alot from them. However, this is the type of contradictions im speaking of.
And think of the more subtle contradictions being made. People who have been using AAS for years with great bodies, great health, great results from use, are telling people that they shouldnt use AAS! Now I know there are many reasons for this and that everyone has some regrets, but come on, really!!! At the end of the day, it would be very hard to convince a newbie that he shouldnt use with this type of evidence being constantly outlined!
Again, I think a checklist should be made for recommendations that pertains only to the common sense aspect of AAS use. In fact, I may start a thread about this myself.
Top of the list should be safety recommendations. This should include the safest compounds, dosages, cycle length, and stacks to use for the listed goals.
Next should be Goal recommendations. This should include Fat loss, Muscle gain, simple euphoric aspects, or whatever the individual is looking to gain from AAS use.
Also, the most common ways people use AAS to attiain the goals listed should be stated. Any uncommon side effects experienced by users should also be listed. Ex. The test-flu seems to be something to look into.
Diet recommendations should also be on the list. This should include specific calorie amounts, Protein-Fat-Carb ratios, number of meals, and types of foods. It should also contain any suppliment recommendations.
Anyway, this is just my opinion!
Jazz
Did you think my post was directed at you alone? It wasn’t intended that way but you certainly are someone who seems to go nuts over things.
To use your example and not take it to the extreme, the newbie who asks why 500mg is better than 250mg should maybe not just think that it is better because it’s more. That is the error. He should instead, look at it as better due to past results and even clinical studies showing results and side effects. From there, if he thought “Well, 2000mg must be better”, he should look at why it is better and see the results versus the sides. And from that, look at his own situation and adapt the findings to his own needs.
People can have an opinion, and they can sure change their opinion based on new evidence or a better line of reasoning. Perhaps that is the reason for some of the contradictory information you find. Have you looked at the time frame between the contradictions? Or even how experiences have changed someone’s thoughts on the subject. Maybe you didn’t get the answers you were looking for in your Primo thread, and I haven’t read it, but perhaps you didn’t present your choice well. Saying something is “safe” isn’t good enough.
And you know what, I bet a lot of people didn’t take the time to answer you with the effort you hoped. I’m not laying all the blame on any one side. I’m saying there is room for improvement all around but it’s we beginners who have the most to lose but turning off the veteran information.
Your idea for a thread with a checklist with common sense advice is basically what FuriousGeorges stickied thread is all about. I haven’t contributed to it other than to try to ask general questions that I think would apply to most people. Some of yours are a little too specific to each person’s goals(ie diet, TRT dosing, etc). I think a lot of the logs supplement the info you mention by showing people potential gains and sides that people can encounter.
I am thinking of Cortes thread where he didn’t run an AI and Tone’s thread where he got gyno almost overnight. Both of these showing how the application of the knowledge you, I, and other beginners can be affected by different approaches. It’s up to us to literally experiment, to a degree, to see what works for us. [/quote]
Jesus, just listen to what ZZ is saying. I'm so tired of people using this forum to write out these long drawn out response posts instead of just listening and saying either ok, or nah...The analyzing of these basic points is a bit overkill no?
Wow, we had a great crowd here not just a few months back and now there are so many redundant and similar threads, with new posters who are noobs, ie? "thewannabe" giving advice to other noobs by repeating what an experienced poster said previous, to seem like they're "in the know".
We’re lucky Sapoisin came back and is helping people out too with his experience. I can only be glad he got back after this cloggage had already been going on for a while or he might not want to be back ya know?
Anyway, I just wish we could get everyone to simply ask questions after using the search button for a while, and make them more direct and to the point. Then just take the difft advices, thank the posters for their opinions, (even the ones you don't agree with), and make your own fucking decisions. It's that simple. Use your own judgement after the research and reading of everyones post, as a final evaluation and decision making process.