A Good Society?

[quote]florelius wrote:
Well maybe I who started this tread should explain my perception of a good society.

well first I must say that I wiew society as an collective. and the collectives purpose is to increase its members ability of survivel. so first of a good society must be productive, it must be able to produce enough food and other needed things for the entire population. second the society must be able to redistribute the different needed products. in other words it needs an productive economy who all members of society benefits from. if a society fails on this on, its useless.

ok next its really how the collective treats the individual member. In a good society in my opinion an individual have rights and dutys. everybody should contribute to society. everybody are entitled to the collectively produced goods. everybody should have establisht rights ( human rights ). Society should be able to stop its members from doing some specific acts ( crimes ). acts like: killing, rape, fighting, corruption, robbery. basic crimes. The same laws that apply to an individual should also apply to the society. The society should not be allowed to kill ( ecxept in selfdefence ). death penalty is not selfdefence, so a good society in my opinion does not execute members. A good society in my opinion does not punish its members in any “evil” way. It will give a criminal an fair and effectiv punishment. lifesentence is in my opinion stupid from an economical point of wiew and an humanitarian point of wiew.

and last power. In a good society its members rule collectively. a society with its own ruling class is not good. In other words democracy, but more direct than the form we have today. I guess thats it.

and offcourse I think socialisme would meet this standards best in an modern industrial context, but if its empirical proved that socialism is unable to meet this standards within a mile. I would stop bein a socialist. because I am more interressted in the content than the form. as an example: If we must have some form of market economy to be able to produce enough to feed all, then I would support that.

[/quote]

Okay, my turn!

Well, societies are made up of principles. So, the following are some:

Peaceful exchange makes everyone better off
Private property is the first principle of liberty
Intervention destroys wealth
Society and economy need no central management to achieve orderliness

Those are the basics that everyone would need, however for a society to my specific interests would also include people with a strong Catholic Heritage, especially in the Latin Mass.

Charity would be a non-issue as we would have gold as money, so the issue of devaluing money would not be an issue and there would be plenty of charity to those that need support, especially widows and children (orphans).

As well, something I saw in Brazil that I would like to see in my society, that women do not pay the same prices as men. Basically Chivalry in business towards women.

Also, no death penalty, euthanasia, abortions, &c.

And if there comes to a point where something is deemed inappropriate we do not need to rush to make it a law, do it the old fashioned way, shun the disgraceful people until they leave town.

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

Okay, my turn!

Well, societies are made up of principles. So, the following are some:

Peaceful exchange makes everyone better off
Private property is the first principle of liberty
Intervention destroys wealth
Society and economy need no central management to achieve orderliness

Those are the basics that everyone would need, however for a society to my specific interests would also include people with a strong Catholic Heritage, especially in the Latin Mass.

Charity would be a non-issue as we would have gold as money, so the issue of devaluing money would not be an issue and there would be plenty of charity to those that need support, especially widows and children (orphans).

As well, something I saw in Brazil that I would like to see in my society, that women do not pay the same prices as men. Basically Chivalry in business towards women.

Also, no death penalty, euthanasia, abortions, &c.

And if there comes to a point where something is deemed inappropriate we do not need to rush to make it a law, do it the old fashioned way, shun the disgraceful people until they leave town.
[/quote]

I agree with most of this except the catholics and the no death penalty and euthanasia.

[quote]John S. wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

Okay, my turn!

Well, societies are made up of principles. So, the following are some:

Peaceful exchange makes everyone better off
Private property is the first principle of liberty
Intervention destroys wealth
Society and economy need no central management to achieve orderliness

Those are the basics that everyone would need, however for a society to my specific interests would also include people with a strong Catholic Heritage, especially in the Latin Mass.

Charity would be a non-issue as we would have gold as money, so the issue of devaluing money would not be an issue and there would be plenty of charity to those that need support, especially widows and children (orphans).

As well, something I saw in Brazil that I would like to see in my society, that women do not pay the same prices as men. Basically Chivalry in business towards women.

Also, no death penalty, euthanasia, abortions, &c.

And if there comes to a point where something is deemed inappropriate we do not need to rush to make it a law, do it the old fashioned way, shun the disgraceful people until they leave town.
[/quote]

I agree with most of this except the catholics and the no death penalty and euthanasia.[/quote]

Well the Catholic part is just because I’m Catholic and I would naturally live where there are Catholics, that or we’d get out our missionaries and do some work. Not saying that it is everyone’s society, but you know if you are going to have religion might as well have the correct one.

Well, also my society wouldn’t have prisons and if they did they would be voluntary so as not to have to pay high premiums on Compensation Insurance after committing an act of aggression on a non-aggressor. So, unless someone wanted to kill themselves, there would be no one that died unless it was a natural death, self-defense, or murder.

in the FIRe, we will have no “sin taxes” either . . . we are Irish after all . . .

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
Do unto others as you would have others do unto you. [/quote]

That doesn’t work so well for sadists and masochists.

An ideal society is Utopia. We cannot chase such rainbows and unicorns if we ever expect to have a meaningful conversation because we all have our own ideas about it. For my own account I do not think there is an ideal society but rather an ideal way to deal with society – understanding the principle of nonaggression and how it positivity affects our ability to cope with the natural world.

We can have a peaceful society where aggression (by governments and individuals) is kept to a minimum – or at the very least, victims of aggression are able to seek justice in a nonaggressive, free market system with out the bias of government intrusion.

As to the definition of society, it is simple:  society is the process of interaction of humans with each other.  Society does not exist for the isolated individual.

All societies have 3 qualities that define them: language, culture, and geography.  That is all that society is derived from.

Language is how information is exchanged -- from simple hand gestures to more complex machine languages.

Culture is all the possible learning that a society has to offer -- it is essentially the transmission of language into broader ideas that shape how individuals within a society interact with other members as well as other cultures.  Culture is not static but rather always in the process of change as those bound by its teachings revise their understanding of cultural ideas.

Geography is the makeup of all geophysical attributes of where we live that shape both our language and culture.  Geography includes both the physical land as well as its geophysical forces -- the forces that change the landscape for better or worse.

Society is not a real thing that acts on its own.  It is a philosophical convenience word to describe how humans interact but it should not be understood as a real thing -- as our world becomes smaller due to instant communication so too the term "society" becomes more abstract.

[quote]florelius wrote:
what is your definition of a good society?

[/quote]

One that honors, protects, and strengthens family and community.

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]florelius wrote:
what is your definition of a good society?

[/quote]
One that honors, protects, and strengthens family and community.[/quote]

…and you think anarchism is unrealistic?

Every government since time immemorial has seen fit to use this same idea to legitimize its existence.

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]florelius wrote:
what is your definition of a good society?

[/quote]
One that honors, protects, and strengthens family and community.[/quote]

…and you think anarchism is unrealistic?

Every government since time immemorial has seen fit to use this same idea to legitimize its existence.[/quote]

No, you misunderstand me. I know anarchism is unrealistic. It’s not even an idea worthy of discussion, really. Discussing anarcho-capitalism is about as pointless as discussing the ‘real’ socialism we just haven’t tried yet. What is worthy of discussion, is how best to build/recover and maintain the above. If it can’t be done, then we’ll simply have a freeish market sector alongside a large welfare state. What we won’t have is anarchy. If anything, democratic socialism would be more likely.

[quote]IrishSteel wrote:
in the FIRe, we will have no “sin taxes” either . . . we are Irish after all . . .[/quote]

Plus, Catholics and Irish a like have no issue with drinking, smoking, or gambling.