T Nation

A Good Crack!

Nah, not that kind of thread.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/08/20/corporal.punishment/index.html

"Corporal punishment in schools remains legal in 21 U.S. states and is used frequently in 13: Missouri, Kentucky, Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, South Carolina, North Carolina, Tennessee and Florida, according to data received from the Office for Civil Rights at the U.S. Department of Education and cited in the report.

The highest percentage of students receiving corporal punishment was in Mississippi, with 7.5 percent of students. The highest number was in Texas, with 48,197 students.

“When you talk to local school officials, they point to the fact that it’s quick and it’s effective – and that’s true,” Farmer said. “It doesn’t take much time to administer corporal punishment, and you don’t have to hire someone to run a detention or an after-school program.”

I myself have taught in several situations and there really are times when a kid needs a good swift crack across the legs or forearms (like threatening to kill you and/or your kids)…or even sometimes getting to the ‘bottom’ of the difficulty. (And STFU EmilyQ)

I was once witness, along with a female teacher, to a principal giving a freshman girl a good paddling for getting caught smoking and calling the teacher ‘motherfucker’. She deserved more than the 3 she got, and a lot harder.

[quote]Headhunter wrote:

I was once witness, along with a female teacher, to a principal giving a freshman girl a good paddling for getting caught smoking and calling the teacher ‘motherfucker’. She deserved more than the 3 she got, and a lot harder.
[/quote]

Sounds kinky. Were they hot?

The state does not have a right to abuse children under its care. If you want to paddle children then start your own school and contract with the parents for that right.

This entire problem could be solved by removing education from the public domain.

pffft…go to other countries…I had friend’s at boarding school that couldn’t sit down at times…

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
The state does not have a right to abuse children under its care. If you want to paddle children then start your own school and contract with the parents for that right.

This entire problem could be solved by removing education from the public domain.[/quote]

Is paddling a kid child abuse? Of course the state doesn’t have a right to abuse children. Neither do parents.

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Headhunter wrote:

I was once witness, along with a female teacher, to a principal giving a freshman girl a good paddling for getting caught smoking and calling the teacher ‘motherfucker’. She deserved more than the 3 she got, and a lot harder.

Sounds kinky. Were they hot?[/quote]

pics or it didn’t happen.

I daresay I wish they had that in my school, kids don’t go to detention, enjoy being suspended, etc, but as hardcore as they pretend they are, they’re really little bitches, and might stop “actin a fool” all the time.

I’d at least enjoy hearing the uproar from all the comparatively rich folk around here who have kids who behave terribly who deserve a paddling.

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
The state does not have a right to abuse children under its care. If you want to paddle children then start your own school and contract with the parents for that right.

This entire problem could be solved by removing education from the public domain.[/quote]

When we moved to a town that had a public education system which would actually teach the three R’s, we enrolled them.

I went up to the school to fill out whatever forms were needed because I wanted to make damn sure that if my kids were acting up, they got their butts tanned at school.

Much to my amazement, I had to fill out a form to KEEP them from spanking. Both of my kids have had their butts whipped at school.

If you think that is abuse, you should have seen the whipping I gave them when they got home from school.

Corporal punishment is probably one of the best educational tools in the history of the profession.

[quote]rainjack wrote:

Corporal punishment is probably one of the best educational tools in the history of the profession. [/quote]

Heh Heh Heh… thats bound to get some peoples panties in a bunch.

I agree that a slap in the behind growing up won’t scar anybody for life. I certainly deserved it the few times it happened.

[quote]rainjack wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
The state does not have a right to abuse children under its care. If you want to paddle children then start your own school and contract with the parents for that right.

This entire problem could be solved by removing education from the public domain.

When we moved to a town that had a public education system which would actually teach the three R’s, we enrolled them.

I went up to the school to fill out whatever forms were needed because I wanted to make damn sure that if my kids were acting up, they got their butts tanned at school.

Much to my amazement, I had to fill out a form to KEEP them from spanking. Both of my kids have had their butts whipped at school.

If you think that is abuse, you should have seen the whipping I gave them when they got home from school.

Corporal punishment is probably one of the best educational tools in the history of the profession. [/quote]

Damn straight. I definitely deserved it on more than one occasion, and I got it. Well, from my parents, but yeah. If the parents are aware and there exists a way for them to opt out or in, no problem. None. And yeah, you should tan them good, not be a pussy if you’re going to use the method in the first place.

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Is paddling a kid child abuse?[/quote]

It can be. And even if it wasn’t considered abuse by the parents of the child being paddled it still should not be done in public schools simply for the fact that parents will have no recourse if they cannot afford to move their child to private school.

[quote]rainjack wrote:
Corporal punishment is probably one of the best educational tools in the history of the profession. [/quote]

It works on pets too.

I disagree that is is the best method for teaching or instilling education but it does give a reminder that there are consequences for antisocial behavior. If not used too frequently it is effective. Once it becomes a habit for every little problem it will have negative effects. It’s good to augment it with positive reinforcement so that the child doesn’t partake in antisocial behavior just for the attention that he or she may receive by being punished.

It seems contradictory but children will seek what ever attention they can get and if they aren’t getting a good dose of the positive stuff they will do what it takes to get the negative stuff. Indeed, children are capable of learning the proper action necessary to receive a desired response. That is how education is even possible in the first place.

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Corporal punishment is probably one of the best educational tools in the history of the profession.

It works on pets too.

I disagree that is is the best method for teaching or instilling education but it does give a reminder that there are consequences for antisocial behavior. If not used too frequently it is effective. Once it becomes a habit for every little problem it will have negative effects. It’s good to augment it with positive reinforcement so that the child doesn’t partake in antisocial behavior just for the attention that he or she may receive by being punished.

It seems contradictory but children will seek what ever attention they can get and if they aren’t getting a good dose of the positive stuff they will do what it takes to get the negative stuff. Indeed, children are capable of learning the proper action necessary to receive a desired response. That is how education is even possible in the first place.[/quote]

Do you have any children?

[quote]rainjack wrote:
Do you have any children?
[/quote]

Yes. But they are too old for a spanking to be of any use. I must resort to taking away privileges and speaking in disappointing tones. Once they learn to roll their eyes at us we will have to come up with a new technique. Any ideas? My parents resorted to “hard labor” but that just made me hate labor.

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Do you have any children?

Yes. But they are too old for a spanking to be of any use. I must resort to taking away privileges and speaking in disappointing tones. Once they learn to roll their eyes at us we will have to come up with a new technique. Any ideas? My parents resorted to “hard labor” but that just made me hate labor.[/quote]

My son will be 17 next month, weighs 185, and I gave him a whipping just a month or so ago.

They are never too old. You just have to go with what works for the child.

My daughter will take a whipping, and never bat an eye. But take away her phone, computer, or ipod, You might as well have sent her to prison. My son can do without almost anything and do it standing on his head. But he would do anything to avoid a paddling from dad. The only thing I can take away from him that comes close to swats is his 360, and his pickup.

[quote]rainjack wrote:
My daughter will take a whipping, and never bat an eye. But take away her phone, computer, or ipod, You might as well have sent her to prison. My son can do without almost anything and do it standing on his head. But he would do anything to avoid a paddling from dad. The only thing I can take away from him that comes close to swats is his 360, and his pickup. [/quote]

I in no way mean the below criticism as a jab to your method of parenting but only raise these point because I am interested in human behavior and education and would like your feedback.

“Whipping” a 17 year old is in fact infantilization. One can spank a 4 year old and in some cases it can be effective to the 10 year old but after puberty children should be treated as adults would. Punishment is not for punishment’s sake alone but rather to instill a sense of consequence; yes hitting an adult may work to instill this but at a cost of making them think it is how to one deals with conflict – not to mention he will always feel like a child in the parent’s presence. There then comes a point when the child should understand the notion of consequence and that he will have to make a restitution for his actions to the person he wronged. That is how it works in the adult world. Childhood is merely practice for it.

Taking transportation and any means of a social life a child might have is probably the best thing there is as far as punishment for anti-social behavior goes.

All I really know is that “timeouts” do not work as a punishment.

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
rainjack wrote:
My daughter will take a whipping, and never bat an eye. But take away her phone, computer, or ipod, You might as well have sent her to prison. My son can do without almost anything and do it standing on his head. But he would do anything to avoid a paddling from dad. The only thing I can take away from him that comes close to swats is his 360, and his pickup.

I in no way mean the below criticism as a jab to your method of parenting but only raise these point because I am interested in human behavior and education and would like your feedback.

“Whipping” a 17 year old is in fact infantilization. One can spank a 4 year old and in some cases it can be effective to the 10 year old but after puberty children should be treated as adults would. Punishment is not for punishment’s sake alone but rather to instill a sense of consequence; yes hitting an adult may work to instill this but at a cost of making them think it is how to one deals with conflict – not to mention he will always feel like a child in the parent’s presence. There then comes a point when the child should understand the notion of consequence and that he will have to make a restitution for his actions to the person he wronged. That is how it works in the adult world. Childhood is merely practice for it.

Taking transportation and any means of a social life a child might have is probably the best thing there is as far as punishment for anti-social behavior goes.

All I really know is that “timeouts” do not work as a punishment.[/quote]

When you say shit like, “this is not a jab”, and then prceed to lecture me on how I am fucking up my son - well - it’s a fucking jab.

Your ignorance of both the situation, and the subject at hand is appalling.

There are consequences for every action. Your stupidity in thinking that there are age limits on discipline is laughable. I have never used a fucking timeout, and you seem to think that it would work.

Kids are not small adults. They are lumps of clay that need to be molded and hardened. Sometimes that can be done quite easily, other times you have to use drastic measures.

My dad beat the shit out of me when I was 23. I took a paddle and tanned my teenaged son’s ass. Why? You do not raise your hand to a woman. You damn sure don’t raise your hand to your mother.

But yeah - I could see where sitting him in the corner would have taught him a very valuable lesson.

If you ever think I need your less-than-stellar parenting advice again, please reconsider and shut the fuck up.

No offense.

[quote]rainjack wrote:
When you say shit like, “this is not a jab”, and then prceed to lecture me on how I am fucking up my son - well - it’s a fucking jab.

Your ignorance of both the situation, and the subject at hand is appalling.
[/quote]

I said it precisely because I am ignorant of the circumstance and in fact I am not judging you or your methods – or reasons for that matter. I have a genuine interest in the subject matter.

Perhaps my biggest mistake is assuming you are capable of such conversation.

[quote]
No offense. [/quote]

Why would I allow my self to be offended? I have no time for such triviality.

There’s a theory floating around, not sure where I heard it first, that the lack of basic respect/courtesy/what have you, comes back to not being able to punch somebody when they deserve it. A situation arises where someone is being an ass and all you can do is walk away for fear of getting sued. Meanwhile the ass learns nothing but is likely to be an ass again in the future.

Kids need to learn respect, and if takes a smack on the backside to teach them that, so be it. Talk is great if the kid will listen, sometimes you just need to get their attention.

[quote]Ouiser wrote:
Kids need to learn respect, and if takes a smack on the backside to teach them that, so be it. Talk is great if the kid will listen, sometimes you just need to get their attention.
[/quote]

Children do not learn respect through the use of violence. They learn fear.

Children must first learn what the notion of respect means; if you “punch” a child and tell him to respect you he will think violence begets respect. However, if you explain what respect is and how one can gain and lose respect and always act in accordance with that principle then it will go much further to the child’s understanding of it.

Nothing gets a child’s attention and with greater effect than restricting his freedom. Hitting a child is of only limited use because it reinforces a negative feedback; in stead, it is necessary to use a positive feedback to show a child that he is behaving acceptably. Kind of like how we treat our pets.