T Nation

A Good Anti-Estrogen?

what is a good anti estrogen pill…ive heard that novadex works good as one. is that true?

Are you looking for an AI or a SERM?

I’m a fan of 6OXO Extreme myself.

[quote]esk221 wrote:
I’m a fan of 6OXO Extreme myself.[/quote]

According to Bill Roberts this isn’t an anti-estrogen.

What does he classify it as?

Have you thought of trying REZ-V???

It is sold here. Check out the store and the articles about the product.

Novedex XT, or whatever it is, is reported to be useless. It’s just playing off the brand-name of the popular SERM, Nolvadex(Tamoxifen Citrate).

If you’re looking for true anti-estrogenic compounds, search the Steroids board under the newbie thread or whatnot. Secondly, don’t ask for sources. If you’re in a position to truly need AI’s or SERMs, you’ll either know people already, or your doctor will gladly perform tests and approve prescriptions(provided he’s knowledgeable on the subject)

[quote]Kromlic wrote:
Novedex XT, or whatever it is, is reported to be useless. It’s just playing off the brand-name of the popular SERM, Nolvadex(Tamoxifen Citrate).[/quote]

Just to add a wrinkle to this discussion, Justin Harris states that he has seen people with very good results using Novadex:

http://www.elitefts.com/documents/Troponin_Nutrition3.htm

Here is the exact section from the about Elitefts piece:

What are your thoughts on natural testosterone boosters?

I’ve seen people’s test levels as high as 1200 ng/dl after taking Novadex. The average male’s test level is 250-750. Even HIGH average tops out at about 1000. Novadex is VERY effective.

Novadex is 1,4,6-Androstatriene-3,17-dione (3,17-keto-etiochol-triene). It is often abbreviated ADT. ADT is an anti-aromatase. Testosterone aromatizes into estrogen in males. There is a level of testosterone to estrogen the body likes to keep (which is why feds often test for test-epitest or similar ratios instead of just test levels. Of course, people caught on to this and took something to raise those levels ALONG WITH test levels).

By blocking the conversion to estrogen, the body senses a lack of estrogen. To increase the estrogen, the body will make more testosterone to be converted to estrogen…which doesn’t happen very efficiently with ADT. The effect is higher levels of testosterone. 1200 is actually as high as some low dose anabolic steroid drugs will create.

ADT is banned by the WNBF, a natural bodybuilding federation. It is perfectly legal to buy and use in America. It isn’t controlled, scheduled, or labeled a prescription drug in any way.

I don’t know what, or if any, PL federations would test for this. A test specific for the ADT molecule would be very expensive to make. There are also many options for analogues to ADT that would pass the test, but still work on some level. Most feds will test for test levels. Since some men (lucky bastards) will have test levels as high as 1100 to 1200 naturally, you are very unlikely to fail a test with this.

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:
Have you thought of trying REZ-V???

It is sold here. Check out the store and the articles about the product.
[/quote]

Personally, I would love to use REZ-V again, but I remember asking Cy Willson about it a while back and it (unfortunately) had a bit of a contraindication with some medication I am currently taking (which bums me out).

[quote]Kuz wrote:
Kromlic wrote:
Novedex XT, or whatever it is, is reported to be useless. It’s just playing off the brand-name of the popular SERM, Nolvadex(Tamoxifen Citrate).

Just to add a wrinkle to this discussion, Justin Harris states that he has seen people with very good results using Novadex:

http://www.elitefts.com/documents/Troponin_Nutrition3.htm

Here is the exact section from the about Elitefts piece:

What are your thoughts on natural testosterone boosters?

I’ve seen people’s test levels as high as 1200 ng/dl after taking Novadex. The average male’s test level is 250-750. Even HIGH average tops out at about 1000. Novadex is VERY effective.

Novadex is 1,4,6-Androstatriene-3,17-dione (3,17-keto-etiochol-triene). It is often abbreviated ADT. ADT is an anti-aromatase. Testosterone aromatizes into estrogen in males.

There is a level of testosterone to estrogen the body likes to keep (which is why feds often test for test-epitest or similar ratios instead of just test levels. Of course, people caught on to this and took something to raise those levels ALONG WITH test levels).

By blocking the conversion to estrogen, the body senses a lack of estrogen. To increase the estrogen, the body will make more testosterone to be converted to estrogen…which doesn’t happen very efficiently with ADT.

The effect is higher levels of testosterone. 1200 is actually as high as some low dose anabolic steroid drugs will create.

ADT is banned by the WNBF, a natural bodybuilding federation. It is perfectly legal to buy and use in America. It isn’t controlled, scheduled, or labeled a prescription drug in any way.

I don’t know what, or if any, PL federations would test for this. A test specific for the ADT molecule would be very expensive to make. There are also many options for analogues to ADT that would pass the test, but still work on some level.

Most feds will test for test levels. Since some men (lucky bastards) will have test levels as high as 1100 to 1200 naturally, you are very unlikely to fail a test with this.[/quote]

Because ADT seems to cross-react with immunologic based assays for testosterone, the high levels seen with supplementation are most likely due to the test picking up both testosterone AND ADT, rather than indicating increased testosterone levels due to aromatase-inhibition.

[quote]NewDamage wrote:
Kuz wrote:
Kromlic wrote:
Novedex XT, or whatever it is, is reported to be useless. It’s just playing off the brand-name of the popular SERM, Nolvadex(Tamoxifen Citrate).

Just to add a wrinkle to this discussion, Justin Harris states that he has seen people with very good results using Novadex:

http://www.elitefts.com/documents/Troponin_Nutrition3.htm

Here is the exact section from the about Elitefts piece:

What are your thoughts on natural testosterone boosters?

I’ve seen people’s test levels as high as 1200 ng/dl after taking Novadex. The average male’s test level is 250-750. Even HIGH average tops out at about 1000. Novadex is VERY effective.

Novadex is 1,4,6-Androstatriene-3,17-dione (3,17-keto-etiochol-triene). It is often abbreviated ADT. ADT is an anti-aromatase. Testosterone aromatizes into estrogen in males.

There is a level of testosterone to estrogen the body likes to keep (which is why feds often test for test-epitest or similar ratios instead of just test levels. Of course, people caught on to this and took something to raise those levels ALONG WITH test levels).

By blocking the conversion to estrogen, the body senses a lack of estrogen. To increase the estrogen, the body will make more testosterone to be converted to estrogen…which doesn’t happen very efficiently with ADT.

The effect is higher levels of testosterone. 1200 is actually as high as some low dose anabolic steroid drugs will create.

ADT is banned by the WNBF, a natural bodybuilding federation. It is perfectly legal to buy and use in America. It isn’t controlled, scheduled, or labeled a prescription drug in any way.

I don’t know what, or if any, PL federations would test for this. A test specific for the ADT molecule would be very expensive to make. There are also many options for analogues to ADT that would pass the test, but still work on some level.

Most feds will test for test levels. Since some men (lucky bastards) will have test levels as high as 1100 to 1200 naturally, you are very unlikely to fail a test with this.

Because ADT seems to cross-react with immunologic based assays for testosterone, the high levels seen with supplementation are most likely due to the test picking up both testosterone AND ADT, rather than indicating increased testosterone levels due to aromatase-inhibition.


[/quote]

Did you mean Nolvadex as opposed to Novadex?

[quote]enrac wrote:

Did you mean Nolvadex as opposed to Novadex?[/quote]

I’m not sure if you’re referring to me or the OP, but I was talking about the one of the active ingredients in NOVEDEX XT.

[quote]NewDamage wrote:
enrac wrote:

Did you mean Nolvadex as opposed to Novadex?

I’m not sure if you’re referring to me or the OP, but I was talking about the one of the active ingredients in NOVEDEX XT.

[/quote]

I am not sure which he meant either, but the piece on Elitefts was about Novadex (not Nolvadex). Just wanted to share as a point of interest.

A lot of broccoli also helps

Eat lots of broccoli SPROUTS.

[quote]Cprimero wrote:
A lot of broccoli also helps[/quote]
…[quote]Or use DIM…Here is what Polquin said on the subject…I’m trying it…[/quote]

Most of the time, just about every time in fact, it’s a sign of a zinc deficiency. Zinc is the best anti-aromatase.

How many people eat a lot of organic nuts? How many people eat unrefined grains? How many people eat quality grass-fed meat? Scallops and oysters? Just about everyone is zinc deficient, especially people who lift weights.

Low zinc means increased aromatase activity, and that means man-boobs. In the last ten years, I haven’t seen a single male first-time client who wasn’t zinc deficient.

Other things that have natural anti-aromatase activity would be grape seed extract, resveratrol (REZ-V), and DIM. You should also look to pull out xenoestrogens with calcium D-glucarate. It’s not a source of calcium; it’s a source of D-glucarate, and that pulls out foreign estrogens.

Removing xenoestrogens is also very difficult if your diet is low in fiber. Anyone who has tits I put on 30 grams of fiber per day, 40/60 split between soluble/insoluble. DIM works very well for that, too.

I sell a shitload of these types of products in the UK because so many of the males there have tits because they consume so much beer. Beer is that estrogenic. Now, before someone asks, if you must drink, red wine actually prevents aromatization. Pinot noir or merlot are good choices. You don’t see tits on men in France…

[quote]Blacksnake wrote:
I sell a shitload of these types of products in the UK because so many of the males there have tits because they consume so much beer. Beer is that estrogenic. Now, before someone asks, if you must drink, red wine actually prevents aromatization. Pinot noir or merlot are good choices. You don’t see tits on men in France…

[/quote]

Do you have any evidence that beer is estrogenic? Most wine drinkers don’t guzzle bottles of wine - 1-2 glasses with a meal. Whereas, beer drinkers I’ll wager drink a bit more, which means more sugar/calories, which accounts for the titties.

What’s an optimal pre-sleep dose of Zinc?

[quote]katzenjammer wrote:
Blacksnake wrote:
I sell a shitload of these types of products in the UK because so many of the males there have tits because they consume so much beer. Beer is that estrogenic. Now, before someone asks, if you must drink, red wine actually prevents aromatization. Pinot noir or merlot are good choices. You don’t see tits on men in France…

Do you have any evidence that beer is estrogenic? Most wine drinkers don’t guzzle bottles of wine - 1-2 glasses with a meal. Whereas, beer drinkers I’ll wager drink a bit more, which means more sugar/calories, which accounts for the titties.

[/quote]

Go to PubMed and look for the effects of alcohol, human, and testosterone. Too much alcohol suppresses T for 5 days.

Or maybe we could get the OP to explain why he is looking for an anti-estrogen in the first place…