T Nation

A Frickin Lack Of Chivalry

I generally tend to agree. That being said, just because an ideal is semi-fictionalized or at least highly romanticized in the literal sense doesn’t mean it can’t be simultaneously “true” in the personal sense.

If a person draws a deeper sense of meaning and purpose from striving to adhere to an ideal, that ideal has value even if it never truly existed in the historical sense. Very much like the way in which some martial arts practitioners (myself included) value a version of the ideals of Bushido and are better people for it despite the historucal fact that whatever else the Samurai were, they were almost incomprehensibly brutal and rigidly classist.

Accuracy is not always the same as truth.

Each day I strap on literal armour, a weapon on my right hip and a tiny symbolic shield on my left. To me this is a powerful, deliberate and very poignant allusion to the knights of old (even if they never existed in they way I would like to imagine). The symbol still has power and I carry it with me in my mind as I go out to preserve the peace and protect the weak and serve as best I can in accordance with the oath I swore. This means something to me.

Police haters may flame on.

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Some things I’ll point out about the standards to which (most) knights adhered;

*Restraint in personal martial prowess reminds me of the Scripture “-
an eye for an eye” -->>. That was actually a restraint that meant NO MORE than an eye for an eye.

That leads us to such codes being based upon, though not in total compliance with, Church teachings.
The Bible is clear that we are to care for widows and orphans, not to kill, and to respect our wives. That part is extrapolated to all women and children I’d think.


Re: Bushdo–awesome warriors’ code of honor.

***Re: Police–>>. God bless and protect them all!


I’ve done a fair amount of reading about knights and Chivalry. It all makes sense to me and o was raised to behave in a similar manner.


Yes people are confused, especially as to how to treat women. Hell, a lot of women don’t even know how they want to be treated. Enter a man who just treats them as if they’re royalty until they show otherwise. She may get upset, but I feel we should give them the benefit of the doubt.
I’ll hold the door for anyone who needs it and say Sir or Ma’am by default. Have yet to get bitched at for it. People can think what they wish about it but I’ll not change unless there’s prior notice that I shouldn’t be nice. Kinda like that movie line, “Be nice until it’s time to not be nice.” After that, someone asks, "How go we know when that is?"
The response is, "I’ll let u know."
So until someone lets me know I should not be nice, it’s my default behavior, especially towards ladies.

And speaking of ladies, mine is off work today so I’m gonna see what’s on my list of things to do :slight_smile:

I’ll hold the door and sometimes even throw in an “Apres vous, mon ami!” in my best Pepe Le Pew imitation.

That even works on green haired college chicks.

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No woman alive can resist Le Pew. Fact.

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Nooooo! Not Pepe!!!
Damn skunk is wat he was and if u smelled like that you’d try to be nice too :stuck_out_tongue:

I have never once had a negative reaction towards me being polite and having good manners (even my southern standards) towards a woman. And i have only ever lived in San Francisco and Seattle as an adult.

The guys who do it in a smarmy way, or who make a to-do about it are the guys who get told off and then blame it on feminist BS. Being a nice, polite person to everyone you meet is a characteristic that everyone appreciates.

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Haha I’m getting old. This made me shake my head in disbelief

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Yeh, smarmy isn’t being a gentleman:confused:
Those deserve to be told off.

Couldn’t agree with u more - bring nice & polite to everyone by default is IMO how we should be, and those who do it for their own ends are just not genuine people.
Then blaming the negative reactions in feminist BS is just, well, pathetic.

U guys familiar with the Knights of Columbus? I am one is y I ask.
For those who don’t know, it’s a Catholic lay fraternal device organization - the largest - and for my council I’ve written some stuff about Chivalry (I used the Song of Roland as a basis) that’s distributed to our council’s new members when they join.

Here’s a few excerpts:

(1) To give succor to widows and orphans:

(2) “To respect the honor women-- > Any plausible reasons to not do so? No. None. Remember, Our Blessed Mother is a woman. Jesus our Lord honored her, and that is a clear example for us to honor our mothers and all women in addition to Our Lady.”


U see, as a Catholic gentleman, I honor the blessed Virgin Mary, and it naturally follows that I honor all women…not to mention my mother is a widow and I expect men to treat her politely.
We all have mothers and I feel that we should treat all women with the same respect we (should) give our own.

**Re: the Sir Galahad clip:
Amusing :slight_smile:

Chivalry is a two way street. I find it is alive and well in subcultures that recognize this.

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As it was in the beginning, is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.

People have a strong tendency to romanticize the past and denigrate the present. Neither deserve this. Chivalry shifts in terms of its practical meaning and application, but I believe it is present in the same proportion it has always been, people being what they are.

We are equal, but half of us are men and half of us are women.
We can strive to be gentlemen and ladies.
I hold the door open for a women, not because she is weak, but as a lady she gets my respect.

I’m a K of C member in southern Mississippi! Past Grand Knight in fact.

Awesome :). Good to hear that

Nostalgia just isn’t what it used to be.

To the OP’s point manners are rare. I have had many people ask me if I served in the military because I say Sir and Ma’am. I’m like “No, I was raised right.”

I think knowing how to act in a dignified manner and be classy is a real asset in today’s world. Many people in my generation and younger can’t even make eye contact during a conversation or sit up straight. Good luck at that interview.

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Yessir, j was raised right and served as well. Just made the service part a hair mire simple cause I didn’t have to get used to that part.

See there’s one I detest cause not making eye contact causes me to think they’re lying.

And doing that at an interview would show a huge lack of self-confidence among other things. If I were interviewing someone like that they’d go straight to the bottom of the list.

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I was raised to hold the door for the person immediately following my through the door regardless of gender. Making an effort to act in harmony with other people in as many situations as possible just makes things nicer; you know things like letting people merge onto the highway etc. I think that people generally do behave this way but when they don’t it tends to stand out in our minds.

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True. I’ll never gripe about someone being nice!

Indeed, thank goodness my brothers-at-arms and on the street do these things.
Maybe it strikes me especially bad when I see a lack of what I consider proper character because I was a soldier, went to war, etc. No need to get into that, but what u say here makes perfect sense to me.

My wife to a T. She’d kick MY ass over the kids :wink:

Funny that some feminists like those. Guess maybe it’s their secret little fantasy. After all, most women are raised with that ideal.

Although I’m no hero, my wife did tame me. It was one of those deals where I was “bad” enough to attract her I guess. She constantly claims SHE finished raising me, and to a large extent that’s true, but Uncle Sam gets a lot of that credit.

Haven’t read Jane Eyre for years but may have to revisit it.

Anyway, these ideals are very important to me and I like very much there’s discussion happening on the subject :).

K, need to go brush my white horse and polish my sword HA!

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Dammit wats a “third wave feminist?” I’m not good with current vernacular.

As for harmless men, let’s just call them by name: wimps (aka that p word).

I believe a man should resemble chained lightning - Power under restraint until it just has no choice but to unleash.

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