T Nation

A Fat Guy Looking to Permabulk

(Professor X/Meganewb)

I am a fat guy who has been on and off lifting for awhile, always had body issues and insecurities and recently decided to just stop giving a fuck.

Since then I have had more confidence, got an amazing girlfriend and generally been on a roll, which has made me think girls care less about abdominals than they do about confidence.

I am quite a fat dude, 30-40 percent body fat. I however want to just focus on getting as big and as strong as possible. I don’t want to follow a strict routine I will just use common sense when it comes to training.

I have had lots of injuries and weight loss and then high gain so I am starting from a very weak base with some existing shoulder problems.

I am going to start a workout log on here after years of lurking. I was hoping for some feedback and just advice in general from the two people on this site who have really helped me out as a young man and with life in general and to say I appreciate you guys and this forum.

I am not sure George posts here anymore but if he reads this congrats on the 906!

As a fellow fat man, I would encourage you to reconsider your goal and think about your long-term health. That said, if you ARE dead-set on doing this, you would be well-served to reconsider the wisdom of this statement:

[quote]Paradise Lost wrote:
I don’t want to follow a strict routine I will just use common sense when it comes to training.
[/quote]

To me, following a strict routine IS common sense.

My excellence in consumption is probably part of how I got as strong as I am. I can put food away, no doubt about it. You will be wasting all of that food you eat if you are not following a sensible program grounded in progressive overload.

If you want to see what my routine looks like you can see it on my log. Is it an optimal routine? Probably not, but it is good and it certainly has gotten me a LOT stronger in less than one year.

Starting a log of your own would also be a good idea.

Best of luck to you.

[quote]twojarslave wrote:
As a fellow fat man, I would encourage you to reconsider your goal and think about your long-term health. That said, if you ARE dead-set on doing this, you would be well-served to reconsider the wisdom of this statement:

[quote]Paradise Lost wrote:
I don’t want to follow a strict routine I will just use common sense when it comes to training.
[/quote]

To me, following a strict routine IS common sense.

My excellence in consumption is probably part of how I got as strong as I am. I can put food away, no doubt about it. You will be wasting all of that food you eat if you are not following a sensible program grounded in progressive overload.

If you want to see what my routine looks like you can see it on my log. Is it an optimal routine? Probably not, but it is good and it certainly has gotten me a LOT stronger in less than one year.

Starting a log of your own would also be a good idea.

Best of luck to you.
[/quote]

Hey thanks dude.

When I say a routine I meant I do not want to follow a set strict routine like SS or a 5x5. I will be basically just splitting my workouts into upper and lower days.

So my upper might be triples with 90% of my 1RM squat and then some accessory work, then the upper day might be high volume overhead pressing followed up by some incline DB bench and then some heavy barbell rowing.

Your way of lifting seems pretty similar to mine from your log, except you stay low reps every session.

By the way how is the pull-up progression going? have you considered using bands?

[quote]twojarslave wrote:
[/quote]

Beware of two-post trolls who invoke the name of P-X.

[quote]jjackkrash wrote:

[quote]twojarslave wrote:
[/quote]

Beware of two-post trolls who invoke the name of P-X. [/quote]

Yeah looking up to people who have achieved what i want to. What a troll. Seriously dude why just try and shit on people and talk shit?

Professor X was indeed one of the posters who really mattered. His advice was of the upmost value to numerous individuals i know. Including myself, though not in training but in many other aspects of life.

Professor X, if you are reading this, i thank you for all you’ve written all these year.

Now with that being said, OP, you are either a troll or an idiot. What the fuck gave you the idea to bulk at 40% bodyfat?! Please don’t claim it was X or Mr Leeman. None of them would tell you to do something as dumb as this.

[quote]dt79 wrote:
Professor X was indeed one of the posters who really mattered. His advice was of the upmost value to numerous individuals i know. Including myself, though not in training but in many other aspects of life.

Professor X, if you are reading this, i thank you for all you’ve written all these year.

Now with that being said, OP, you are either a troll or an idiot. What the fuck gave you the idea to bulk at 40% bodyfat?! Please don’t claim it was X or Mr Leeman. None of them would tell you to do something as dumb as this.[/quote]

I would say I am closer to 30% than to 40% and most of the lifters with exception to Professor X who never got huge all focused on just getting bigger and stronger, Mega newb being 400 pounds after bulking from 200 pounds. Now he looks insanely good, has visible abdominals and has deadlifted over 900lbs.

Brandon lilly, mark bell, Wendler, they all got huge and built their strength and mass and after years of growing dieted down and now look like beasts.

I have no desire to ever have a six pack or be below 20% body fat. I want to be big and strong.

I don’t care if I get fatter. I won’t get stronger and add more mass by cutting like so many users on here who are always 175 pound with abs. That is not my goal.

You mentioned common sense in your first post.

Does common sense tell you that any of these people STARTED training and eating IN EXCESS for muscle gains above 30% bodyfat?

[quote]dt79 wrote:
You mentioned common sense in your first post.

Does common sense tell you that any of these people STARTED training and eating IN EXCESS for muscle gains above 30% bodyfat? [/quote]

George Leeman did yes. So did mark bell. Not sure about wendler.

[quote]Paradise Lost wrote:

[quote]dt79 wrote:
Professor X was indeed one of the posters who really mattered. His advice was of the upmost value to numerous individuals i know. Including myself, though not in training but in many other aspects of life.

Professor X, if you are reading this, i thank you for all you’ve written all these year.

Now with that being said, OP, you are either a troll or an idiot. What the fuck gave you the idea to bulk at 40% bodyfat?! Please don’t claim it was X or Mr Leeman. None of them would tell you to do something as dumb as this.[/quote]

I would say I am closer to 30% than to 40% and most of the lifters with exception to Professor X who never got huge all focused on just getting bigger and stronger, Mega newb being 400 pounds after bulking from 200 pounds. Now he looks insanely good, has visible abdominals and has head lifted over 900lbs.

Brandon lilly, mark bell, Wendler, they all got huge and built their strength and mass and after years of growing dieted down and now look like beasts.

I have no desire to ever have a six pack or be below 20% body fat. I want to be big and strong.

I don’t care if I get fatter. I won’t get stronger and add more mass by cutting like so many users on here who are always 175 pound with abs. That is not my goal.[/quote]

Sounds like you know what you need to do then. Lift Eat Sleep.

Good luck.

I think you should reconsider. There is absolutely zero reason you can not enjoy eating what ever you want and still being under 30% even under 20% with some very minimal restraint. There is absolutely zero benefit to being 30%-40% body fat. I understand you want to be big and strong and I feel you and respect that fully but, even of your absolutely gigantic say 350 at 40% Bf You will look and feel even more impressive at say 280-300 at 25-30% bf.

I talk George occasionally via email and social media and I know for a fact he would not advise you to continue bulking at 30+ BF%. I promise just semi very semi clean up your diet and you will continue to grow in strength and size, look and feel better about it.

[quote]dt79 wrote:
You mentioned common sense in your first post.

Does common sense tell you that any of these people STARTED training and eating IN EXCESS for muscle gains above 30% bodyfat? [/quote]

In line with this comment…

OP, you’re certainly free to set your own goals. If you want to get big and strong without any regard for “other” aspects of metabolic health, have at it and good luck. However, it is worth noting that several of this site’s lead authors advised rather strongly against deciding to bulk when you’re already high BF, for reasons OTHER than just “wanting to see abs year round.”

[quote]Paradise Lost wrote:
has been on and off lifting for awhile

I have had lots of injuries and weight loss and then high gain so I am starting from a very weak base with some existing shoulder problems.[/quote]
Based on these two things alone, you’d definitely benefit from a pre-designed, well-structured program.

At that point, there’s essentially no difference. Morbid obesity is morbid obesity. Are you currently 21 yrs old, 5’9", and 205, as per your profile info?

You’re already big, so maybe you should be more specific in your goals.

One of the strangest sentences I’ve seen on this site in a while. For sure, not everyone here is shooting for cover model abs and bodybuilder biceps, but literally not caring whether or not you get fatter, especially when you’re already so seriously overweight, is irresponsible, non-sensical, and counter-productive is almost every sense (unless you’re already an experienced competitive powerlifter who uses their large belly as a strategic leverage point and ROM shortener in competition).

Dude, you could drop 30 pounds and still not have abs, so don’t worry about that. What, exactly, is your goal. Bench 500? Weigh 270 regardless of waist size?

This is the last kind of lifting someone with “some existing shoulder problems” should be doing. So, again, get on a good program. I get the feeling you’re looking for us to encourage your lack of attention to effective training and nutrition for the sake of “getting/staying big”.

lol at citing Professor X and Meganewb and using that as the reasoning for why you want to bulk when you’re already at 30+% bodyfat. While both certainly believed you didn’t need to be lean all the time, I distinctly remember X saying multiple times that he never advised anyone to try to get fat, and if you were actually obese you need to lose weight. There’s a difference between “full house” and obese. Granted, for some people the line’s pretty blurry.

Neither posts on this site anymore.

You realize if you’re as untrained and weak as you say, and as fat as you say, it would be pretty damn easy to lose weight AND get significantly stronger in the next few months right? And still not be anywhere close to your feared “having abs” zone. So I’m not sure where your logic comes from.

However, if you’re dead set on just getting bigger and stronger and screw health and mobility, then it’s pretty simple and you know what to do. Lift, eat everything you see, sleep, repeat.

I know what you’d expect to hear from either X or George, but I guarantee it wouldn’t be what you think it would. Like others have said, neither would advocate your approach. If you don’t believe all the people saying that, then you really didn’t follow either one as much as you say.

[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:

[quote]Paradise Lost wrote:
has been on and off lifting for awhile

I have had lots of injuries and weight loss and then high gain so I am starting from a very weak base with some existing shoulder problems.[/quote]
Based on these two things alone, you’d definitely benefit from a pre-designed, well-structured program.

At that point, there’s essentially no difference. Morbid obesity is morbid obesity. Are you currently 21 yrs old, 5’9", and 205, as per your profile info?

You’re already big, so maybe you should be more specific in your goals.

One of the strangest sentences I’ve seen on this site in a while. For sure, not everyone here is shooting for cover model abs and bodybuilder biceps, but literally not caring whether or not you get fatter, especially when you’re already so seriously overweight, is irresponsible, non-sensical, and counter-productive is almost every sense (unless you’re already an experienced competitive powerlifter who uses their large belly as a strategic leverage point and ROM shortener in competition).

Dude, you could drop 30 pounds and still not have abs, so don’t worry about that. What, exactly, is your goal. Bench 500? Weigh 270 regardless of waist size?

This is the last kind of lifting someone with “some existing shoulder problems” should be doing. So, again, get on a good program. I get the feeling you’re looking for us to encourage your lack of attention to effective training and nutrition for the sake of “getting/staying big”.[/quote]

Hey Chris thank you for your reply.

Yes those are my stats. I am 5,9 - 205.

I have gained a lot of the weight from just being injured and not really worrying about weight gain. I got lots of stretch marks as a kid from constantly changing weight. I would do cross country running and triathlons for 6 months swell as football and then the rest of the year would be doing no exercise. Since then I had huge stretch marks all over my body from stomach to legs etc so I never really cared if I got big.

I did cut down a few years ago I got quite low body fat and had 4 visible abs but I looked small and I had so many stretch marks and scars being super lean didn’t look very good.

As for my goals, I want to start powerlifting, I have seen a fed I am looking to start competing in. I want to get as strong as possible in those regards. I also want a big body, Brandon lilly before he cut down is probably my favourite physique coupled with incredible strength.

As for my outlook seeming odd, I do understand I am odd, in general, but especially with my body image and how I feel about it. I see people crave the shredded look and most guys i train with at the gym do it so they can look a certain way in order to seem more appealing. My goal is not for anyone, I have the only woman I want in my life and she is not shallow and is fine with me being whatever shape and size I want.

I am determined to get big and get very strong and all the people I have ever seen do it all bulked and got “fat” to do it. As for training lots of people but especially Jim wendler often talks about how he found his own way in regards to lifting, Lamar Gant talked about how he trained in a way people often thought stupid, he would often try and beat his 20 rep maxes and would train by feel.

I understand you are a smart and experienced lifter (and nice enough to bother to help new guys) but everything i have heard from people I aspire to be like goes against rigid routines made by other people and everything i have seen in the gym and on forums seems to show that guys who cut once they see a bit of fat and are constantly cutting and bulking seem to always stay below 200 pounds and never progress.

Again thanks for taking the time to respond and I am genuinely appreciative and open to new ideas and feedback.

[quote]Paradise Lost wrote:

[quote]dt79 wrote:
You mentioned common sense in your first post.

Does common sense tell you that any of these people STARTED training and eating IN EXCESS for muscle gains above 30% bodyfat? [/quote]

George Leeman did yes. So did mark bell. Not sure about wendler.[/quote]

For the love of God, i said STARTED training and bulking at above 30% bodyfat, not where they eventually ended up.

[quote]staystrong wrote:
lol at citing Professor X and Meganewb and using that as the reasoning for why you want to bulk when you’re already at 30+% bodyfat. While both certainly believed you didn’t need to be lean all the time, I distinctly remember X saying multiple times that he never advised anyone to try to get fat, and if you were actually obese you need to lose weight. There’s a difference between “full house” and obese. Granted, for some people the line’s pretty blurry.

Neither posts on this site anymore. And for what it’s worth, when I first started out X was huge in helping me get on the right track and I appreciate the advice and time he spent to help me.

You realize if you’re as untrained and weak as you say, and as fat as you say, it would be pretty damn easy to lose weight AND get significantly stronger in the next few months right? And still not be anywhere close to your feared “having abs” zone. So I’m not sure where your logic comes from.

However, if you’re dead set on just getting bigger and stronger and screw health and mobility, then it’s pretty simple and you know what to do. Lift, eat everything you see, sleep, repeat.

I know what you’d expect to hear from either X or George, but I guarantee it wouldn’t be what you think it would. Like others have said, neither would advocate your approach. If you don’t believe all the people saying that, then you really didn’t follow either one as much as you say.[/quote]

Yeah I recall Professor X telling George not to over do it. I was not saying He was telling me to do this, I was just thanking him in general, not putting words into his mouth.

I may very well lose weight and recomp, I am eating clean healthy foods, I am not counting calories. I am eating when hungry. I am getting lots of protein. I am not talking about gaining 100 lbs in 2 months. I am talking about along the way over the next few years of consistent and dedicated lifting I am going to get as big as I can.

I am not trying to gain fat as the primary goal. I am going to gain size and if I have to get/stay fat to reach my goals I will do it.

[quote]dt79 wrote:

[quote]Paradise Lost wrote:

[quote]dt79 wrote:
You mentioned common sense in your first post.

Does common sense tell you that any of these people STARTED training and eating IN EXCESS for muscle gains above 30% bodyfat? [/quote]

George Leeman did yes. So did mark bell. Not sure about wendler.[/quote]

For the love of God, i said STARTED training and bulking at above 30% bodyfat, not where they eventually ended up.[/quote]

Yes I know, he was fat before he started lifting.

Go see his transformation video. He was not far off from 20%. At FIFTEEN.

[quote]dt79 wrote:
Go see his transformation video. He was not far off from 20%. At FIFTEEN.[/quote]

I have seen it, the picture of his start point is 20-30 percent body fat. George talks about being a fat kid and thats why he started, being fat but too weak to defend himself etc.