[quote]sapasion wrote:
If you read the data then yes it does suggest A-sin is the least harsh on cholesterol levels and what not. I had naturally low HDL and high LDL, something like 30HDL and 165LDL [this is not good]. Thru products like Lipitor and dietary changes I improved my cholesterol significantly. My best ever #'s were HDL 55 and LDL 106.
Now this is not pure science but here it goes. Last year, I did a 12 week cycle of 500mg Cyp and 300mg Deca per week with a dbol kickstart of 50mg for 4 weeks. I ran liquid A-dex at .5ml ED from day 1. It was my first and only A-dex experience. I ran A-dex thinking the dbol at that dosage plus the Test and Deca might be a good thing. Six weeks before my cycle I had HDL of 51 and LDL of 112. A month into the cycle, just about when I finished the dbol, I got my cholesterol checked again mid cycle mind you. Something didn’t feel right in my body, despite the Deca my elbows and shoulders were hurting so I started to think I had dropped too much estrogen. Long story short, after 4 weeks of A-dex at .5mg ED my HDL was 39 and LDL was 133. Admittedly, that might not totally be attributed to the A-dex but nevertheless my HDL was down 24% and LDL had risen 20% in 4 weeks. I stopped the A-dex at once thinking without the Dbol maybe I didn’t need it and I didn’t want my cholesterol dropping anymore. So like I said, I was on cycle A-dex free for another 8 weeks and PCT for 5 weeks. I had my cholesterol checked maybe a week after PCT or 14 weeks or do after stopping A-dex. My numbers then were HDL 44 and LDL 126. Which is to say they had not improved much at all. Now we can debate what the Test did to them or what the Nolva did to them. But the main drop came on the A-dex.
The other cycle I did last year was also Deca and TestC. For this one I did something a bit odd. It was also a 10-12 weeker [10Deca and 12 Cyp]. When I stopped Deca aka week 10 I started A-sin and ran it then next 7 weeks. SO basically I ran it with my last 2 weeks of Test, the week I was off before starting PCT and the first 4 weeks of my PCT. Using 6.25mg ED of A-sin I experienced none of the joint aches I did on A-dex. Now admittedly I was just finishing 10 weeks of Deca which no doubt was in my system for most of the time I was on A-sin. However, its the cholestrol numbers that I think are relevant. Before this cycle my HDL was 49 and LDL 116. After cycle it was HDL 51 and LDL 126. Now again, there are other factors not mentioned here. But, my HDL went up!! and my LDL only raised by 8%.
Again, not pure science but IMO A-sin is not as harsh on lipids in my body as A-dex. This last cycle I could not get A-sin pre-cycle so I decided to go without an AI even though I could have gotten A-dex. I ran some proviron and it was good enough. I think maybe my body does not aromatize that much of the extra Test. This might explain why the A-dex actually hurt me. Equally true the A-sin dosage I used it maybe only 1/4 of what some recommend; whereas .5mg of A-dex is perhaps double what I could have taken.
All in all I’m a bigger fan of A-sin than A-dex and I never have and hopefully never will try letro.
Damn that was long sorry[/quote]
I think that any decent data that you find is for women on cancer therapy who are going for levels of E that are lower than you are after and smaller doses by far. In those [female]cases, the effect on lipids is also probably from low E and not a direct effect of the drug. So the more effective drugs, lower E levels, will have more lipid effects. So if you go after the same target E levels with any AI, your lipid effect will probably be the same. And the target E levels for most of us BB or TRT guys will not have any negative effects. If you are after 5% BF, then you are probably creating a risk of lipid problems.
You CANNOT take data from women’s cancer oriented dosing and extrapolate to men taking much smaller amounts.
I lowered my E2 from 37 to 22 with 1mg adex/wk. My cholesterol went from 206 to 202. HDL remained good. If you are on gear and need 2 or 3 times the adex to get to that E2 level, which would not be an expected dose, then I think that your lipids would be fine.
This is where femara can be a problem, as some taking very small amounts can have E2 levels that are very low. The response is not very predictable. A-dex is self limiting. Typical E2 levels for young male normal subjects is around 17 with 1mg/day. 2mg/day has the same result. 17 is not a dangerous level. For guys on cycles, anything short term would be of limited consequences in any case.
And with female cancer data, most of the women are post-menopausal and their E levels have tanked before they got onto AI. Guys on gear have more estrogen potential than those women.