In regards to Bin Laden’s/Al Qaeda’s denials.
http://www.911myths.com/html/responsibility.html
[quote]Rockscar wrote:
The tide is turning. Our media can’t stand it. Libs can’t stand it.
[/quote]
…I’m happy we’re “winning”. I’m just pissed no one will admit we’ve changed nothing we set out to change. We’ve done good, but not the good we keep saying we will.
It’s not that I can’t stand it. I just disagree with your definition of “winning”.
You make Muslims less likely to follow the extremists, you take out terrorists in Pakistan and Saudi Arabia where they are most concentrated, and you do it without committing massive amounts of American lives and a damn huge ass chunk of change and I’ll say we’ve won or we’re at least winning.
Oh and 9/11 was perpetrated by a group of pissed off Muslims. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a retarded douche.
[quote]Beowolf wrote:
Oh and 9/11 was perpetrated by a group of pissed off Muslims. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a retarded douche. [/quote]
I think everyone is right, bin Laden orchestrated and planned 9/11…
He also lived HERE…
[b]The Lair of bin Laden[/b] (see photo)
The idea that Osama and his followers had entombed themselves in an unassailable fortress under a mountain immediately embedded itself into the imagination of the American press…
The story probably reached its high point on NBC’s Meet The Press on December 2nd when Tim Russert, the host of the program, provided Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld with the artist’s rendering of bin Laden’s fortress. The interview proceeded:
Russert: The Times of London did a graphic, which I want to put on the screen for you and our viewers. This is it. This is a fortress. This is a very much a complex, multi-tiered, bedrooms and offices on the top, as you can see, secret exits on the side and on the bottom, cut deep to avoid thermal detection so when our planes fly to try to determine if any human beings are in there, it’s built so deeply down and embedded in the mountain and the rock it’s hard to detect.
And over here, valleys guarded, as you can see, by some Taliban soldiers. A ventilation system to allow people to breathe and to carry on. An arms and ammunition depot. And you can see here the exits leading into it and the entrances large enough to drive trucks and cars and even tanks. And it’s own hydroelectric power to help keep lights on, even computer systems and telephone systems. It’s a very sophisticated operation.
Rumsfeld: Oh, you bet. This is serious business. And there’s not one of those. There are many of those. And they have been used very effectively. And I might add, Afghanistan is not the only country that has gone underground. Any number of countries have gone underground. The tunneling equipment that exists today is very powerful. It’s dual use. It’s available across the globe. And people have recognized the advantages of using underground protection for themselves.
A few weeks after the “Meet the Press” interview, US special forces and their Afghan allies occupied Tora Bora. They painstakingly searched Gree Khil mountain and the surrounding area. They found no underground fortress, no hydro-electric power plant, no 2000-room hotel, no ant farm, no iron doors, no ventilating shafts. The troglodyte Lair of Bin Laden turned out to be mythic.
http://www.edwardjayepstein.com/nether_fictoid3.htm
Watch as Rumsfeld and Russert LIE right to your face (with full-color graphics). Also a little background on the myth that there is an actual organization that calls themselves “al-Qaeda”
Oh, also the 9/11 terror financier bin Laden was very, very wealthy…
“He left Sudan with practically nothing,” the 9/11 commission found.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5896423/
[quote][i]"…what was strange was that although Goldstein was hated and despised by everybody, although every day and a thousand times a day, on platforms, on the telescreen, in newspapers, in books, his theories were refuted, smashed, ridiculed, held up to the general gaze for the pitiful rubbish that they were in spite of all this, his influence never seemed to grow less.
Always there were fresh dupes waiting to be seduced by him. A day never passed when spies and saboteurs acting under his directions were not unmasked by the Thought Police. He was the commander of a vast shadowy army, an underground network of conspirators dedicated to the overthrow of the State…
…the speculations which might possibly induce a sceptical or rebellious attitude are killed in advance by his early acquired inner discipline. The first and simplest stage in the discipline, which can be taught even to young children, is called, in Newspeak, crimestop.
Crimestop means the faculty of stopping short, as though by instinct, at the threshold of any dangerous thought. It includes the power of not grasping analogies, of failing to perceive logical errors, of misunderstanding the simplest arguments if they are inimical to Ingsoc, and of being bored or repelled by any train of thought which is capable of leading in a heretical direction. Crimestop, in short, means protective stupidity…"[/i][/quote]
~ Orwell’s “1984”
Everybody knows Bin Laden is an anagram for “Ned Blain,” David Blain Mosad-agent brother, who used holograms to make planes appear to fly into the WTC as part of a deal with the Bush Administration, Saudis and Wayne Newton to get his own magic show at Caesars Palace.
[quote]JustTheFacts wrote:
Oh, also the 9/11 terror financier bin Laden was very, very wealthy…
“He left Sudan with practically nothing,” the 9/11 commission found.
[/quote]
Not sure what your point is. While personally, he had less money than previously thought, he was key to fund-raising. So, uh… nice editing…
He left Sudan with practically nothing
He left Sudan with practically nothing, the commission found.
When bin Laden arrived in Afghanistan, he relied on the Taliban until he was able to reinvigorate his fund-raising efforts by drawing on ties to wealthy Saudi individuals that he had established during the Afghan war in the 1980s.
Responding to an inquiry from a Senate panel late last year, the Treasury Departments Office of Foreign Assets Control said the overstated estimates about bin Ladens wealth and his financial backing of al-Qaida actually trivialized the threat posed by his group.
[b]Perhaps even more dangerous, bin Ladens benefit to radical Islam is that he, coming from a wealthy and influential family, was considered a trusted person and had the ability to receive and dispose of charitable money, the office wrote in a memo, obtained by the Associated Press in April.
Bin Laden could then direct the money to support local institutions in many countries, in an attempt to radicalize those communities and give him bases to recruit and train.[/b]
[quote]futuredave wrote:
JustTheFacts wrote:
Oh, also the 9/11 terror financier bin Laden was very, very wealthy…
“He left Sudan with practically nothing,” the 9/11 commission found.
Not sure what your point is. While personally, he had less money than previously thought, he was key to fund-raising. So, uh… nice editing…
[/quote]
“Key to fund-raising”… from his mythical “lair” no doubt.
So your calling me out on my edit? The point being that the bin Laden in the “official story” that plotted and financed 9/11 had $300 million (and lived in massive structures underground), when in reality… “He left Sudan with practically nothing,” the [9/11] commission found.
New narrative – he’s a “fund-raiser.”
I hate to keep quoting 1984 but g-d damn…
“Day by day and almost minute by minute the past was brought up to date. In this way every prediction made by the Party could be shown by documentary evidence to have been correct…”
Gee, why can’t “conspiracy theorists” just follow the story wherever it happens to go and just BELIEVE? Things change, new evidence comes to light – I get that.
But there is an EXTREMELY wide gap between REALITY and “this place”
http://www.edwardjayepstein.com/nether_fictoid3.htm
(thats actually a pretty enormous lie)
And between $300 million and “He left Sudan with practically nothing.”
The rest of the article basically told me they knew NOTHING about bin Laden if they actually believed he was worth $300 million after 9/11… but of course to sell “the mastermind of 9/11” to the public, he had to be filthy rich and live in an elaborate underground city…
http://www.edwardjayepstein.com/nether_fictoid3.htm
Seriously, there are MANY of those… hahahahahaha.
[quote]Rockscar wrote:
Bin Laden said to Europeans today…
“The events of Manhattan were retaliation against the American-Israeli alliance’s aggression against our people in Palestine and Lebanon, and I am the only one responsible for it. The Afghan people and government knew nothing about it. America knows that,” bin Laden said.
Please continue the debate…and tell me this guy is not a threat and behind the attacks.[/quote]
Just to clarify:
We’re supposed to believe him when he takes responsibility for the attacks.
But when he provides his justification, we’re supposed to assume that he’s lying about American occupation being an issue and the real reason he did it was because he hates this country and everything it stands for.
Have I got that right, neocons?
[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:
Rockscar wrote:
Bin Laden said to Europeans today…
“The events of Manhattan were retaliation against the American-Israeli alliance’s aggression against our people in Palestine and Lebanon, and I am the only one responsible for it. The Afghan people and government knew nothing about it. America knows that,” bin Laden said.
Please continue the debate…and tell me this guy is not a threat and behind the attacks.
Just to clarify:
We’re supposed to believe him when he takes responsibility for the attacks.
But when he provides his justification, we’re supposed to assume that he’s lying about American occupation being an issue and the real reason he did it was because he hates this country and everything it stands for.
Have I got that right, neocons?[/quote]
It’s called “propaganda.”
[quote]JustTheFacts wrote:
I hate to keep quoting 1984 but g-d damn…[/quote]
Yeah, I keep waiting for you to refer to bin Laden as “Emmanuel Goldstein.”
Oh, and writing the word “god” without the vowel? How uncharacteristically Jewish of you, JTF. 
[quote]Sloth wrote:
It’s called “propaganda.”[/quote]
You got that right…
http://www.edwardjayepstein.com/nether_fictoid3.htm
He can fly too.
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
JustTheFacts wrote:
I hate to keep quoting 1984 but g-d damn…
Yeah, I keep waiting for you to refer to bin Laden as “Emmanuel Goldstein.”[/quote]
I pretty much did earlier…
[i]"…what was strange was that although Goldstein was hated and despised by everybody, although every day and a thousand times a day, on platforms, on the telescreen, in newspapers, in books, his theories were refuted, smashed, ridiculed, held up to the general gaze for the pitiful rubbish that they were in spite of all this, his influence never seemed to grow less.
Always there were fresh dupes waiting to be seduced by him. A day never passed when spies and saboteurs acting under his directions were not unmasked by the Thought Police. He was the commander of a vast shadowy army, an underground network of conspirators dedicated to the overthrow of the State…"[/i]
That IS bin Laden… and he’s real ; )
Yeah I don’t know what that was about.
[quote]
Rockscar wrote:
Bin Laden said to Europeans today…
“The events of Manhattan were retaliation against the American-Israeli alliance’s aggression against our people in Palestine and Lebanon, and I am the only one responsible for it. The Afghan people and government knew nothing about it. America knows that,” bin Laden said.
Please continue the debate…and tell me this guy is not a threat and behind the attacks.
Nominal Prospect wrote:
Just to clarify:
We’re supposed to believe him when he takes responsibility for the attacks.
But when he provides his justification, we’re supposed to assume that he’s lying about American occupation being an issue and the real reason he did it was because he hates this country and everything it stands for.
Have I got that right, neocons?[/quote]
W/r/t an objective fact, such as “Osama bin Laden was behind the attack,” we also have other facts, such as the testimony of other conspirators and physical facts. Osama’s confession is one piece of corroborating evidence.
W/r/t the subjective reasoning behind his attacks, we only have what he says to go on - or what he’s written.
The funny thing is, his statements have changed over time, so I guess I’m not surprised to see people latch on to whatever backs up their beliefs best.
See this book: Messages to the World: The Statements of Osama Bin Laden - Oussama Ben Laden, Osama Bin Laden, Usāma Ibn-Lādin - Google Books
See also: The Shocking Truth About Osama bin Laden
and http://www.army.mil/professionalwriting/volumes/volume5/january_2007/1_07_4.html
I find it funny that we can only consider something a “conspiracy” if it goes against what the mainstream has told us to believe.
I find it wierd that they pin pointed sadam in a fuckin hole in the ground and yet cant find bin laden. like joe rogan said, bin laden is a comic book villian. Hes a millionaire, he lives in a cave and he hates americans. And everytime hes almost caught, he magicly gets away.Ive seen to much shit from everywhere to believe that we know everything behind this.
I would throw out some opinions but people tend to lack the ability to debate political issues civily. I simply believe the american government is hiding a bit to much.
[quote]Curodd wrote:
I simply believe the american government is hiding a bit to much. [/quote]
No, it’s just that we are trying appease the public and fight a war without shedding any blood. How is that possible?
If we do our job, we are condemned, if we don’t we are condemned.
[quote]Rockscar wrote:
Curodd wrote:
I simply believe the american government is hiding a bit to much.
No, it’s just that we are trying appease the public and fight a war without shedding any blood. How is that possible?
If we do our job, we are condemned, if we don’t we are condemned.[/quote]
Exactly. He is probably hiding in Pakistan. Unless we invade we are not going to get him.
Who is up for invading Pakistan? HH sit down!
There is no conspiracy or hidden agenda regarding Bin Laden. Bush would love to catch this guy dead or alive. His approval would double.
[quote]JustTheFacts wrote:
The rest of the article basically told me they knew NOTHING about bin Laden if they actually believed he was worth $300 million after 9/11… but of course to sell “the mastermind of 9/11” to the public, he had to be filthy rich and live in an elaborate underground city…
http://www.edwardjayepstein.com/nether_fictoid3.htm
Seriously, there are MANY of those… hahahahahaha.[/quote]
He was not the first terrorist to hide out in an elaborate fortress in Afghanistan.
[quote]JustTheFacts wrote:
That IS bin Laden… and he’s real ; )
[/quote]
Snicker, snicker. 
Winston: “Does the Brotherhood exist?”
O’Brien: “That, Winston, you will never know. If we choose to set you free when we have finished with you, and if you live to be ninety years old, still you will never learn whether the answer to that question is Yes or No. As long as you live it will be an unsolved riddle in your mind.”
Ignorance is Strength. Freedom is Slavery. War is Peace. Two plus two equals five. And we will definitely capture bin Laden very soon.
Outside of Bin Laden.
14th October: Suleiman Abu Ghaith
[i]"Finally, I address the US secretary of state, who cast doubt about my previous statement and downplayed what we said that there are thousands of Muslim youths who are eager to die and that the aircraft storm will not stop, God willing.
"Powell, and others in the US administration, know that if al-Qaeda organisation promises or threatens, it fulfils its promise or threat, God willing.
"Therefore, we tell him tomorrow is not far for he who waits for it. What will happen is what you are going to see and not what you hear.
"And the storms will not calm, especially the aircraft storm…
We also say and advise the Muslims in the United States and Britain, the children, and those who reject the unjust US policy not to travel by plane.
We also advise them not to live in high-rise buildings and towers…"[/i]
October 2002: Ramzi Binalshibh and Khalid Shaikh Mohammed
“Immediately, Khalid introduces himself as head of the military committee of Al Qaeda,” says Fouda. “That committee actually was the arm of Al Qaeda, which decided, first of all,” according to Khalid, “to strike America inside America and to eventually choose the targets, which were actually hit on Sept. 11”
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/10/08/60II/main524794.shtml
October 2002: Ramzi Binalshibh and Khalid Shaikh Mohammed
[i]"In the second part of a documentary aired by the Arabic television news network Al-Jazeera, two al Qaeda terrorists wanted by the United States give an account of their planning of the September 11 attacks and describe the actions of some of the main hijackers in their final days…
About three weeks before September 11, targets were assigned to four teams, with three of them bearing a code name: The U.S. Capitol was called “The Faculty of Law;” the Pentagon became “The Faculty of Fine Arts;” and the North Tower of the World Trade Center was code-named by Atta as “The Faculty of Town Planning.”
One of the terrorists, Abu Abdul Rahman, pretended to send a love message via an Internet chat room to his German girlfriend, who was actually Binalshibh. It contained more code for the attacks:
“The first semester commences in three weeks. Two high schools and two universities. … This summer will surely be hot …19 [the eventual number of hijackers] certificates for private education and four exams. Regards to the professor. Goodbye.”
Soon after, Fouda says, the hijackers began “moving fast,” picking the flights to be hijacked, choosing ones involving large planes with “maximum volume of fuel and best punctuality.”
Seats in business class were chosen for some to allow for “mobility and maneuverability,” according to Binalshibh.[/i]
http://archives.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/meast/09/12/alqaeda.911.claim/index.html
June 13th 2006: Al Qaeda statement:
[i]DUBAI, United Arab Emirates - A Saudi militant killed in 2004 was due to have been the 20th suicide plane hijacker in the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks, al-Qaida’s media arm said in a statement on the Internet on Tuesday.
“Turki bin Fheid al-Muteiri – Fawaz al-Nashmi – may God accept him as a martyr (was) the one chosen by Sheikh Osama bin Laden to be the martyrdom-seeker number 20 in the raid on September 11, 2001,” the statement said.
“The (Sept. 11) operation was brought forward for some circumstances that brother Mohamed Atta explained to the general leadership,” it said, indicating that Muteiri could not join the other hijackers, led by Atta, in time.[/i]
For more: Responsibility - 911myths
Oh, and on the site directly above you can view videos of the imaginary Islamists’ testaments. Some of them praise the mythical Bin Laden, the leader of the non-existent Al Qaeda group.