90% of Children with Down Syndrome are Aborted

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]sufiandy wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

  1. if you need to put me on ignore I understand

  2. No all I was asking for was clarification of what you wanted to see happen. Then we went on a tangent on Chile.

  3. not arguing anything just wanted clarification

  4. 4 year degree in Econ & finance and working towards 2 accounting designations. Working on the US CPA.[/quote]

If you have a 4 year degree you should know by now to only use reputable non-bias sources such as exposingthelie.com and lifesitenews.com[/quote]

Says the guy who tried to argue that unborn children are not human because they don’t yet have name.

Incidentally, to return to that for just a moment. My own unborn son is now nearing the 30th week of his life. We have yet to finally decide upon a name for him because it’s so hard to find a male name that works well in both Japanese and English. So, are you going to look me in the eyes, so to speak, and tell me that the boy moving around in my wife’s belly, reacting to voices and movement and sound and stimuli, who’s face I’ve already seen multiple times via the miracle of 3D imagery, are you really going to tell me, my son is not human?

I can damn sure guarantee you’d better not say that to my face. [/quote]

I guess you suck at math, what trimester is the 30th week in?

[quote]sufiandy wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]sufiandy wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:
I love it. I wake up to a full new page of responses and STILL not ONE member of the pro-abortion side had even attempted to do anything other than deflect the conversation away from the very simple question I have been asking. Over and over and over and over and over again.

Let me try one more time, though I expect another answer similar to, “Well, you guys have to want life in prison for the mother and the doctor, so there!” Wtf?

One. More. Time.

Exactly when does a conceived human become a human being?

Until this very simple, fundamental question gets answered, NOTHING else we are talking about makes any difference whatsoever. It’s like talking philosophy before defining your terms. We’ll be talking past each other the whole time.

So, pretty please, with a cherry on top, answer the damned question. [/quote]

After the 1st trimester.[/quote]

Is that because it doesn’t have a name before then, lol?

Okay, please explain to us what it is from the moment of conception until the start of the second trimester. This should be interesting.
[/quote]

It’s whatever us humans decide it is which appears to be unknown at the moment since we can’t agree. Science can only tell us physical traits of what it is, not what laws should apply to it.[/quote]

I didn’t ask about laws. I asked WHAT IS IT?

I can tell you what science says it is. Do you want me to tell you?

Can I answer please? Cortes you know my answer but I shall try to help you ; )

The conceived human is ALWAYS a human being, from the earliest moments of conception. Never once do they change into a virus, a parasite those previous two are different species, though often times some will make that particular, weak comparison, a duck or a horse or anything other than a human. Yes they are very tiny and sometimes appear simple, but size or complexity has never quantified worth to me. Even if I tower over most people at 6’7"

Should I expect others to follow my lead? I doubt it! jaa jaa jaa

[quote]Cortes wrote:
I love it. I wake up to a full new page of responses and STILL not ONE member of the pro-abortion side had even attempted to do anything other than deflect the conversation away from the very simple question I have been asking. Over and over and over and over and over again.

Let me try one more time, though I expect another answer similar to, “Well, you guys have to want life in prison for the mother and the doctor, so there!” Wtf?

One. More. Time.

Exactly when does a conceived human become a human being?

Until this very simple, fundamental question gets answered, NOTHING else we are talking about makes any difference whatsoever. It’s like talking philosophy before defining your terms. We’ll be talking past each other the whole time.

So, pretty please, with a cherry on top, answer the damned question. [/quote]

[quote]sufiandy wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]sufiandy wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

  1. if you need to put me on ignore I understand

  2. No all I was asking for was clarification of what you wanted to see happen. Then we went on a tangent on Chile.

  3. not arguing anything just wanted clarification

  4. 4 year degree in Econ & finance and working towards 2 accounting designations. Working on the US CPA.[/quote]

If you have a 4 year degree you should know by now to only use reputable non-bias sources such as exposingthelie.com and lifesitenews.com[/quote]

Says the guy who tried to argue that unborn children are not human because they don’t yet have name.

Incidentally, to return to that for just a moment. My own unborn son is now nearing the 30th week of his life. We have yet to finally decide upon a name for him because it’s so hard to find a male name that works well in both Japanese and English. So, are you going to look me in the eyes, so to speak, and tell me that the boy moving around in my wife’s belly, reacting to voices and movement and sound and stimuli, who’s face I’ve already seen multiple times via the miracle of 3D imagery, are you really going to tell me, my son is not human?

I can damn sure guarantee you’d better not say that to my face. [/quote]

I guess you suck at math, what trimester is the 30th week in?[/quote]

I do suck at math. But, luckily for me, my reading comprehension skills and powers of perception are exquisite. As is my memory.

You, YOU mentioned a child not having a name was an indication it is not human. Do I really need to go back and get that and post it here again? What are you, the guy from Memento?

We weren’t talking about math, genius.

If you have to ask which game you were playing, you do not realize OR your tyring to be dense. I will take the previous option.

Again please, which portion was I conflicting?

[quote]therajraj wrote:
And What game was I playing? You made a conflicting statement and I asked you to clarify. Anyways I don’t care.

So to the other pro lifers, what do you think the legal punishment for consenting to an abortion if made illegal?[/quote]

Source please.

[quote]sufiandy wrote:
Good luck with waiting for the laws to change. Apparently 90% of people are OK with the current law on the issue.[/quote]

[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
Source please.

[quote]sufiandy wrote:
Good luck with waiting for the laws to change. Apparently 90% of people are OK with the current law on the issue.[/quote]
[/quote]

Yes, please.

[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
Source please.

[quote]sufiandy wrote:
Good luck with waiting for the laws to change. Apparently 90% of people are OK with the current law on the issue.[/quote]
[/quote]

No source, but if its incorrect please change the title of the next thread. I assume the pro choice crowd does not get stuck with a larger percentage of down syndrome fetuses. Unless of course God wants them aborted in which case he just needs to try a little harder on that last 10%.

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]sufiandy wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]sufiandy wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

  1. if you need to put me on ignore I understand

  2. No all I was asking for was clarification of what you wanted to see happen. Then we went on a tangent on Chile.

  3. not arguing anything just wanted clarification

  4. 4 year degree in Econ & finance and working towards 2 accounting designations. Working on the US CPA.[/quote]

If you have a 4 year degree you should know by now to only use reputable non-bias sources such as exposingthelie.com and lifesitenews.com[/quote]

Says the guy who tried to argue that unborn children are not human because they don’t yet have name.

Incidentally, to return to that for just a moment. My own unborn son is now nearing the 30th week of his life. We have yet to finally decide upon a name for him because it’s so hard to find a male name that works well in both Japanese and English. So, are you going to look me in the eyes, so to speak, and tell me that the boy moving around in my wife’s belly, reacting to voices and movement and sound and stimuli, who’s face I’ve already seen multiple times via the miracle of 3D imagery, are you really going to tell me, my son is not human?

I can damn sure guarantee you’d better not say that to my face. [/quote]

I guess you suck at math, what trimester is the 30th week in?[/quote]

I do suck at math. But, luckily for me, my reading comprehension skills and powers of perception are exquisite. As is my memory.

You, YOU mentioned a child not having a name was an indication it is not human. Do I really need to go back and get that and post it here again? What are you, the guy from Memento?

We weren’t talking about math, genius.
[/quote]

The name was really not the end of the point I was trying to make. Next time I will try to not do any lead-ins to avoid confusion. I really was not trying to imply an unnamed fetus was something less than human.

[quote]sufiandy wrote:

[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
Source please.

[quote]sufiandy wrote:
Good luck with waiting for the laws to change. Apparently 90% of people are OK with the current law on the issue.[/quote]
[/quote]

No source, but if its incorrect please change the title of the next thread. I assume the pro choice crowd does not get stuck with a larger percentage of down syndrome fetuses. Unless of course God wants them aborted in which case he just needs to try a little harder on that last 10%.[/quote]

Is English your first language?

[quote]sufiandy wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]sufiandy wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]sufiandy wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

  1. if you need to put me on ignore I understand

  2. No all I was asking for was clarification of what you wanted to see happen. Then we went on a tangent on Chile.

  3. not arguing anything just wanted clarification

  4. 4 year degree in Econ & finance and working towards 2 accounting designations. Working on the US CPA.[/quote]

If you have a 4 year degree you should know by now to only use reputable non-bias sources such as exposingthelie.com and lifesitenews.com[/quote]

Says the guy who tried to argue that unborn children are not human because they don’t yet have name.

Incidentally, to return to that for just a moment. My own unborn son is now nearing the 30th week of his life. We have yet to finally decide upon a name for him because it’s so hard to find a male name that works well in both Japanese and English. So, are you going to look me in the eyes, so to speak, and tell me that the boy moving around in my wife’s belly, reacting to voices and movement and sound and stimuli, who’s face I’ve already seen multiple times via the miracle of 3D imagery, are you really going to tell me, my son is not human?

I can damn sure guarantee you’d better not say that to my face. [/quote]

I guess you suck at math, what trimester is the 30th week in?[/quote]

I do suck at math. But, luckily for me, my reading comprehension skills and powers of perception are exquisite. As is my memory.

You, YOU mentioned a child not having a name was an indication it is not human. Do I really need to go back and get that and post it here again? What are you, the guy from Memento?

We weren’t talking about math, genius.
[/quote]

The name was really not the end of the point I was trying to make. Next time I will try to not do any lead-ins to avoid confusion. I really was not trying to imply an unnamed fetus was something less than human.[/quote]

Good. Thank you.

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]sufiandy wrote:

[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
Source please.

[quote]sufiandy wrote:
Good luck with waiting for the laws to change. Apparently 90% of people are OK with the current law on the issue.[/quote]
[/quote]

No source, but if its incorrect please change the title of the next thread. I assume the pro choice crowd does not get stuck with a larger percentage of down syndrome fetuses. Unless of course God wants them aborted in which case he just needs to try a little harder on that last 10%.[/quote]

Is English your first language?
[/quote]

Yes but I was never very good at it.

[quote]sufiandy wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]sufiandy wrote:

[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
Source please.

[quote]sufiandy wrote:
Good luck with waiting for the laws to change. Apparently 90% of people are OK with the current law on the issue.[/quote]
[/quote]

No source, but if its incorrect please change the title of the next thread. I assume the pro choice crowd does not get stuck with a larger percentage of down syndrome fetuses. Unless of course God wants them aborted in which case he just needs to try a little harder on that last 10%.[/quote]

Is English your first language?
[/quote]

Yes but I was never very good at it.[/quote]

Hahah! As much as I sometimes want to throttle you, you’re alright.

[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
If you have to ask which game you were playing, you do not realize OR your tyring to be dense. I will take the previous option.

Again please, which portion was I conflicting?

[/quote]

Ummmm… Where you said the penalty for having an abortion in Chile was life in prison? What I quoted on the last page. That’s not remotely true, their penal code specifically states a short term sentence will be given to a woman who consents to an abortion.

You seem to be interested in being condescending for the sake of being condescending (Gee I wonder why you asked about my education?) when I asked you a simple question about what you wanted to see happen.

Anyways, this is my last post addressed to you, I’m not going to waste anymore time.

So anyways I would like to hear what the other pro-lifers in here think - Tribulus, Cortes and Sloth (if you’re still here):

What exactly do you want to see happen? If abortion is made illegal, what penalty should a woman who receive for consenting to an abortion?

[quote]sufiandy wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

  1. if you need to put me on ignore I understand

  2. No all I was asking for was clarification of what you wanted to see happen. Then we went on a tangent on Chile.

  3. not arguing anything just wanted clarification

  4. 4 year degree in Econ & finance and working towards 2 accounting designations. Working on the US CPA.[/quote]

If you have a 4 year degree you should know by now to only use reputable non-bias sources such as exposingthelie.com and lifesitenews.com[/quote]

This I agree with.

I often wonder about some of these people who are one side of a controversial issue for most of their life then all of a sudden have an epiphany and jump over to the other side.

I mean just look at the woman featured on that exposing the lie site that was posted. She volunteered at PP, is a former director and even had 2 abortions herself! TWO!

Then she magically transforms into a pro-life activist, writes a book about her experience which eventually becomes a national best seller. I find it quite curious that this epiphany she had lead her to such financial gain. Maybe it’s coincidence, or maybe there’s just a lot of money in being a total fraud.

[quote]Cortes wrote:
So I’ll ask it for a third time now: Just when, exactly, does a conceived human become a human being?[/quote]

Simply put, I DON’T KNOW AND NEITHER DO YOU. I choose to personally err on the side of caution and assume at conception, but as that’s a pretty big assumption, I’m unwilling to tell people what they should think about abortion.

[quote]BrianHanson wrote:
ZEB,

I prove you wrong consistently, you are clearly just to dumb or stubborn to realize it.[/quote]

Once again you SAY that but we both know that this has never happened. I have an idea since you made the claim post the specifics or shut up. So far you’ve been unable to do either.

[quote]
Yeah it should have said 46 (though 45 or 47 is a possibility) I hit the wrong button on my screen.[/quote]

Yes, those buttons can be awfully confusing for a smart guy like you.

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:
So I’ll ask it for a third time now: Just when, exactly, does a conceived human become a human being?[/quote]

Simply put, I DON’T KNOW AND NEITHER DO YOU. I choose to personally err on the side of caution and assume at conception, but as that’s a pretty big assumption, I’m unwilling to tell people what they should think about abortion.[/quote]

Really ?
That’s an easy question though.

“Human” has no objective, universal, scientific meaning besides “a member of the homo sapiens specie”.

Is a fetus a specimen of the homo sapiens specie ?
-Answer : yes

How do we know ?
-DNA test will show it.

“Being” has no objective, universal, scientific meaning besides “an organism”.

Is a fetus an organism ?
-answer : yes

How do we know ?
-It is a contiguous living system. It manifests growth, development, an eukaryotic organization, response to stimuli, and it maintains its own homeostasis.

A zygote is therefore an human being from the moment of conception.

That or “human being” becomes a vague, subjective, philosophical expression.
IE : something we will no more be able to protect effectively.
Not only in the case of zygotes but in many other cases too.

kneedragger,

The argument that you are making is a little bit misdirected. Yes the zygote has all of the DNA it needs to become a full and functioning human being, yes the tissue is human, but it is not a human being yet, it is a potential human being. Think of it like this, your body can spontaneously abort a baby (at a rate of about 20%, for women that know they are pregnant so the number is actually higher), with most of these miscarriages happening within the first 7 weeks. My mother is long dead, but strangely when she died I did not spontaneously abort (sorry), why is that? because I am a full grown human being. If abortion is naturally occurring (as natures way of dealing with issues pre-birth) why would medically assisted abortions be illegal? In fact the numbers seem to suggest that a number of abortions performed each year are on fetuses that the body hasn’t gotten around to terminating on its’ own…yet. The simple fact is that while some abortions ought not to be done (late term healthy fetuses) in many cases medical professionals are just assisting nature with what it already does. If nature viewed a “living embryo” as a fully developed functioning human it would not abort it.

Fun Facts:

red states have higher teen pregnancy rates than blue states (sex ed and contraception seem to play a role)

countries where abortion is illegal have higher rates of abortion than countries where it is legal.

about 50,000 women die each year from unsafe illegal abortions (sisters, wives and mothers) and about 8.5 million suffer severe medical issues (yes I know 30 bazillion babies were aborted just yesterday).

There are a number of reasons for this some internal (hormone issues for example) some external (substance abuse, trauma etc), but at no point in the pro-life agenda do you recommend putting women in bubble wrap and protecting their unborn children from the world around them, and at no point do you suggest that women be mandated to see a physician