[quote]boomtownboy wrote:
I last did deca 3-4 years ago!! From what I’ve read deca can stay as metabolites in the body for approx 18 months. And some other article I read says the actual molecule can be stored in fat and rereleased years after consumption if you diet down and there is some left in your fat stores. [/quote]
Christ almighty… that’s a long time.
Read all replies
Here’s my 2 cents.
Your problem is not the endocrine system, it’s in the BRAIN. 19 Nors wreck havoc on the brain’s function.
Go see an endocrinologist with a speciality. Seek a psychiatrist for brain activity.
Source: father is world renowned endocrinologist.
[quote]greenseedless wrote:
Read all replies
Here’s my 2 cents.
Your problem is not the endocrine system, it’s in the BRAIN. 19 Nors wreck havoc on the brain’s function.
Go see an endocrinologist with a speciality. Seek a psychiatrist for brain activity.
Source: father is world renowned endocrinologist. [/quote]
I’m not sure who you’re replying to, since the possibility of problems with brain function(which I agree) has been brought up prior to jedi1337’s posts, but if you’re adressing him:
[quote]jedi1337 wrote:
Ah man.
My situation is slightly different in that my ED has been caused by test only. I’ve read a lot of forums and for some unlucky guys like myself, test ED is a reality. [/quote]
This guy did not use any 19nors. He is also rather stubborn despite his lack of knowledge on this subject.
[quote]dt79 wrote:
[quote]greenseedless wrote:
Read all replies
Here’s my 2 cents.
Your problem is not the endocrine system, it’s in the BRAIN. 19 Nors wreck havoc on the brain’s function.
Go see an endocrinologist with a speciality. Seek a psychiatrist for brain activity.
Source: father is world renowned endocrinologist. [/quote]
I’m not sure who you’re replying to, since the possibility of problems with brain function(which I agree) has been brought up prior to jedi1337’s posts, but if you’re adressing him:
[quote]jedi1337 wrote:
Ah man.
My situation is slightly different in that my ED has been caused by test only. I’ve read a lot of forums and for some unlucky guys like myself, test ED is a reality. [/quote]
This guy did not use any 19nors. He is also rather stubborn despite his lack of knowledge on this subject.[/quote]
I believe he is replying to Boom as my issues were caused by test. I didn’t use Deca.
With regards to being stubborn… maybe you misinterpreted. I said “nah” meaning “no, I didnt get my bloods done” (yet). I did not say that i wouldn’t. Maybe I should have been a bit clearer.
Having read extensively the anecdotes of people suffering from roid-induced ED, I have generally found that there are a lot of non-professionals on many of these boards offering the most shocking of advice to people. Agreed, some people are very experienced with roids, and I am not discounting their opinion since they may have been through some of the aforementioned problems. In an ideal world, of course, we’d have empirical research from reputable scientific journals to work from. In the absence of that, a doctor who specializes in steroid use and associated side affects. For those of you who don’t know what its like to work in academic research and/or the medical professions, their fields are extremely specialist. As Greenseedless has pointed out, Booms issues may not lie in the realm of endocrinology, but possibly Psychiatry. I’d argue that neither may be sufficient (an endocrinologist or psychiatrist), unless they have have worked extensively and specifically with Steriod users.
Just FYI I studied Psychology and Neuroscience for many years & worked in academic research. I am not here to press my opinions on others, but I have good insight into biology, neurobiology, psychopathology and the treatments thereof. Greenseedless has advised going to a doc and “seek a round of antidepressants”. This is very, very bad advice (please don’t take offence Green, but you have to be careful advising people on these matters). Antidepressents are very controversial for a number of reasons, including increased incidence of suicide and, ironically, ED and anorgasmia.
Everybody seems to talk about imbalances. “You should restore x with y”, “take more of x”, “run another PCT”. I havent read one ED story on the forums which has been rectified with such simplicity. Indeed, quite often, total abstinence seems to be the only solution in some cases (see the link at the bottom of this post for an example). Some people report no return to normality - a real shame - despite trying everything (more PCTs, TRT, Docs, endocrine specialists, passage of time, etc). It is obvious, therefore, that there are factors we and the specialists are unaware of - biological mechanisms we do not understand. Perhaps its not just “imbalances” - perhaps, like what can happen with hCG, you damage the very cells responsible for part of the feedback system that is the HPTA - irrevocably and with no way back. I’d argue that the ONLY thing you can be sure of, though, is that every time you take ANY drug - steriod/PCT-related/depression meds/d2 agonists/etc - you are increasing the chance of unwanted side-effects.
Just my opinion.
[quote]jedi1337 wrote:
I believe he is replying to Boom as my issues were caused by test. I didn’t use Deca.
With regards to being stubborn… maybe you misinterpreted. I said “nah” meaning “no, I didnt get my bloods done” (yet). I did not say that i wouldn’t. Maybe I should have been a bit clearer. [/quote]
You wrote:
It was a rather logical inference, don’t you think?
Unfortunately, the illegality if these drugs has prevented the possibility of such research.
Google Michael Scally.
Agreed.
I wouldn’t bother advising him to self-censor. He’s not very sane. See his first post on this forum.
All you were advised to do was get bloodwork because, despite what you think you know, ED IS common among users even on cycle, and most of the time it is due to not properly controlling estrogen levels. And, yes, a lot of such these cases have been easily rectified. Hopefully, your case is of a similar nature.
Aside from that, I am rather amused by the fact that you bothered to write a long story about your background in research and all this meaningless rhetoric when it is obvious you did not spend the time to acquire sufficent knowledge before starting a cycle.
Furthermore, the fact that you did not immediately seek medical help and/or get a hormone panel done, despite your alleged background, would normally lead me to seriously question your intellect. However, I am giving you the benefit of the doubt that your initial actions were emotionally driven rather than objectively. This is why I told you to stop being a pussy.
Look what i found !
Maybe this is the real cause of deca dick - BRAIN DICK
Brains is veeery damaged with deca
READ
Nandrolone decanoate is a highly abused anabolic-androgenic steroid (AAS) by individuals looking for gains in physical strength or body appearance. Supraphysiological doses of this testosterone synthetic derivative have been associated with many physical and psychiatric adverse effects, especially reported episodes of impulsiveness and overt aggressive behavior.
Since the neural mechanisms underlying AAS-induced behavioral disinhibition are unknown, we investigated the integrity of serotonergic system transcription in several brain areas of mice under prolonged nandrolone administration. Male C57Bl/6J mice received 15 mg/kg of nandrolone decanoate subcutaneously once daily for 28 days, and different sets of animals were used to investigate motor and emotion-related behaviors or 5-HT-related gene expression by qRT-PCR.
AAS-injected mice had increased body weight, were hyperactive and displayed more anxious-like behaviors in novel environments. They exhibited reduced immobility in the forced swim test, higher probability of being aggressive and elevated impulsivity to attack the opponent. AAS induced substantial reduction in the transcription of most postsynaptic 5-HT receptors investigated in the amygdala and prefrontal cortex.
Interestingly, 5-HT1B mRNA was further reduced in the hippocampus and hypothalamus. At the midbrain level, there was no alteration in 5- HT receptors, transporter or synthetic enzyme gene transcription. In conclusion, high doses of AAS nandrolone in male mice recapitulate the behavioral disinhibition observed in abusers. Furthermore, they are associated with overall decrease in 5-HT receptor gene expression in the amygdala and prefrontal cortex, implicating these areas as critical sites for AASinduced effects and indicating a role for the 5-HT1B receptor in this behavioral disinhibition.
Is reversible ? Maybe 
[quote]diegogtbr wrote:
Look what i found !
Maybe this is the real cause of deca dick - BRAIN DICK
Brains is veeery damaged with deca
READ
Nandrolone decanoate is a highly abused anabolic-androgenic steroid (AAS) by individuals looking for gains in physical strength or body appearance. Supraphysiological doses of this testosterone synthetic derivative have been associated with many physical and psychiatric adverse effects, especially reported episodes of impulsiveness and overt aggressive behavior.
Since the neural mechanisms underlying AAS-induced behavioral disinhibition are unknown, we investigated the integrity of serotonergic system transcription in several brain areas of mice under prolonged nandrolone administration. Male C57Bl/6J mice received 15 mg/kg of nandrolone decanoate subcutaneously once daily for 28 days, and different sets of animals were used to investigate motor and emotion-related behaviors or 5-HT-related gene expression by qRT-PCR.
AAS-injected mice had increased body weight, were hyperactive and displayed more anxious-like behaviors in novel environments. They exhibited reduced immobility in the forced swim test, higher probability of being aggressive and elevated impulsivity to attack the opponent. AAS induced substantial reduction in the transcription of most postsynaptic 5-HT receptors investigated in the amygdala and prefrontal cortex.
Interestingly, 5-HT1B mRNA was further reduced in the hippocampus and hypothalamus. At the midbrain level, there was no alteration in 5- HT receptors, transporter or synthetic enzyme gene transcription. In conclusion, high doses of AAS nandrolone in male mice recapitulate the behavioral disinhibition observed in abusers. Furthermore, they are associated with overall decrease in 5-HT receptor gene expression in the amygdala and prefrontal cortex, implicating these areas as critical sites for AASinduced effects and indicating a role for the 5-HT1B receptor in this behavioral disinhibition.
Is reversible ? Maybe :/[/quote]
Interesting. It wouldn’t surprise me if deca-dick was brain-mediated. The implication of serotinergic systems might also suggest a similar role in erectile dysfunction mechanics as SSRIs. At least at the behavioral level, the swim test results demonstrate antidepressant effects, which I would assume fluoxetine and other SSRIs would also show.
But this study is very specific and doesnt answer your question. Maybe I missed it, but did they measure the mRNA while the mice were still on AAS? If so, this only tells us that AAS alters gene expression in serotinergic pathways while the drug is in the body. It doesnt tell us what happens after discontinuation. I mean, we know already that AAS alters gene expression in different parts of the body.
Like cancer, which kills you when it destroys the ability of an organ to fulfill its normal function within the body, perhaps there are thesholds in long-term AAS damage (and this may vary between individuals). Once a threshold has been breached - for example in the case of testicular atrophy - there is no way back and that system is now screwed.
Who knows.
I was going to start my 1st cycle next week, glad as a long time lurker i checked this topic, im not going down this road anymore, not worth it for me.
What about triptorelin?
[quote]jedi1337 wrote:
[quote]diegogtbr wrote:
Look what i found !
Maybe this is the real cause of deca dick - BRAIN DICK
Brains is veeery damaged with deca
READ
Nandrolone decanoate is a highly abused anabolic-androgenic steroid (AAS) by individuals looking for gains in physical strength or body appearance. Supraphysiological doses of this testosterone synthetic derivative have been associated with many physical and psychiatric adverse effects, especially reported episodes of impulsiveness and overt aggressive behavior.
Since the neural mechanisms underlying AAS-induced behavioral disinhibition are unknown, we investigated the integrity of serotonergic system transcription in several brain areas of mice under prolonged nandrolone administration. Male C57Bl/6J mice received 15 mg/kg of nandrolone decanoate subcutaneously once daily for 28 days, and different sets of animals were used to investigate motor and emotion-related behaviors or 5-HT-related gene expression by qRT-PCR.
AAS-injected mice had increased body weight, were hyperactive and displayed more anxious-like behaviors in novel environments. They exhibited reduced immobility in the forced swim test, higher probability of being aggressive and elevated impulsivity to attack the opponent. AAS induced substantial reduction in the transcription of most postsynaptic 5-HT receptors investigated in the amygdala and prefrontal cortex.
Interestingly, 5-HT1B mRNA was further reduced in the hippocampus and hypothalamus. At the midbrain level, there was no alteration in 5- HT receptors, transporter or synthetic enzyme gene transcription. In conclusion, high doses of AAS nandrolone in male mice recapitulate the behavioral disinhibition observed in abusers. Furthermore, they are associated with overall decrease in 5-HT receptor gene expression in the amygdala and prefrontal cortex, implicating these areas as critical sites for AASinduced effects and indicating a role for the 5-HT1B receptor in this behavioral disinhibition.
Is reversible ? Maybe :/[/quote]
Interesting. It wouldn’t surprise me if deca-dick was brain-mediated. The implication of serotinergic systems might also suggest a similar role in erectile dysfunction mechanics as SSRIs. At least at the behavioral level, the swim test results demonstrate antidepressant effects, which I would assume fluoxetine and other SSRIs would also show.
But this study is very specific and doesnt answer your question. Maybe I missed it, but did they measure the mRNA while the mice were still on AAS? If so, this only tells us that AAS alters gene expression in serotinergic pathways while the drug is in the body. It doesnt tell us what happens after discontinuation. I mean, we know already that AAS alters gene expression in different parts of the body.
Like cancer, which kills you when it destroys the ability of an organ to fulfill its normal function within the body, perhaps there are thesholds in long-term AAS damage (and this may vary between individuals). Once a threshold has been breached - for example in the case of testicular atrophy - there is no way back and that system is now screwed.
Who knows. [/quote]
I have no doubt Deca Dick is brain related. I was a complete mess mentally when I stopped deca. A complete mess for a year! Now almost 2 years out, I’m certainly better but still not even close to back to normal. I’ve just learned to accept the new normal I guess.
I had tons and tons of labwork done. All came back normal. I’m on TRT so T levels never fell low either.
A lot of my symptoms from Deca mimic that of Post Finasteride Syndrome.
[quote]diegogtbr wrote:
Look what i found !
Maybe this is the real cause of deca dick - BRAIN DICK
Brains is veeery damaged with deca
READ
Nandrolone decanoate is a highly abused anabolic-androgenic steroid (AAS) by individuals looking for gains in physical strength or body appearance. Supraphysiological doses of this testosterone synthetic derivative have been associated with many physical and psychiatric adverse effects, especially reported episodes of impulsiveness and overt aggressive behavior.
Since the neural mechanisms underlying AAS-induced behavioral disinhibition are unknown, we investigated the integrity of serotonergic system transcription in several brain areas of mice under prolonged nandrolone administration. Male C57Bl/6J mice received 15 mg/kg of nandrolone decanoate subcutaneously once daily for 28 days, and different sets of animals were used to investigate motor and emotion-related behaviors or 5-HT-related gene expression by qRT-PCR.
AAS-injected mice had increased body weight, were hyperactive and displayed more anxious-like behaviors in novel environments. They exhibited reduced immobility in the forced swim test, higher probability of being aggressive and elevated impulsivity to attack the opponent. AAS induced substantial reduction in the transcription of most postsynaptic 5-HT receptors investigated in the amygdala and prefrontal cortex.
Interestingly, 5-HT1B mRNA was further reduced in the hippocampus and hypothalamus. At the midbrain level, there was no alteration in 5- HT receptors, transporter or synthetic enzyme gene transcription. In conclusion, high doses of AAS nandrolone in male mice recapitulate the behavioral disinhibition observed in abusers. Furthermore, they are associated with overall decrease in 5-HT receptor gene expression in the amygdala and prefrontal cortex, implicating these areas as critical sites for AASinduced effects and indicating a role for the 5-HT1B receptor in this behavioral disinhibition.
Is reversible ? Maybe :/[/quote]
well, there’s this, too:
[quote]Ned wrote:
[quote]jedi1337 wrote:
[quote]diegogtbr wrote:
Look what i found !
Maybe this is the real cause of deca dick - BRAIN DICK
Brains is veeery damaged with deca
READ
Nandrolone decanoate is a highly abused anabolic-androgenic steroid (AAS) by individuals looking for gains in physical strength or body appearance. Supraphysiological doses of this testosterone synthetic derivative have been associated with many physical and psychiatric adverse effects, especially reported episodes of impulsiveness and overt aggressive behavior.
Since the neural mechanisms underlying AAS-induced behavioral disinhibition are unknown, we investigated the integrity of serotonergic system transcription in several brain areas of mice under prolonged nandrolone administration. Male C57Bl/6J mice received 15 mg/kg of nandrolone decanoate subcutaneously once daily for 28 days, and different sets of animals were used to investigate motor and emotion-related behaviors or 5-HT-related gene expression by qRT-PCR.
AAS-injected mice had increased body weight, were hyperactive and displayed more anxious-like behaviors in novel environments. They exhibited reduced immobility in the forced swim test, higher probability of being aggressive and elevated impulsivity to attack the opponent. AAS induced substantial reduction in the transcription of most postsynaptic 5-HT receptors investigated in the amygdala and prefrontal cortex.
Interestingly, 5-HT1B mRNA was further reduced in the hippocampus and hypothalamus. At the midbrain level, there was no alteration in 5- HT receptors, transporter or synthetic enzyme gene transcription. In conclusion, high doses of AAS nandrolone in male mice recapitulate the behavioral disinhibition observed in abusers. Furthermore, they are associated with overall decrease in 5-HT receptor gene expression in the amygdala and prefrontal cortex, implicating these areas as critical sites for AASinduced effects and indicating a role for the 5-HT1B receptor in this behavioral disinhibition.
Is reversible ? Maybe :/[/quote]
Interesting. It wouldn’t surprise me if deca-dick was brain-mediated. The implication of serotinergic systems might also suggest a similar role in erectile dysfunction mechanics as SSRIs. At least at the behavioral level, the swim test results demonstrate antidepressant effects, which I would assume fluoxetine and other SSRIs would also show.
But this study is very specific and doesnt answer your question. Maybe I missed it, but did they measure the mRNA while the mice were still on AAS? If so, this only tells us that AAS alters gene expression in serotinergic pathways while the drug is in the body. It doesnt tell us what happens after discontinuation. I mean, we know already that AAS alters gene expression in different parts of the body.
Like cancer, which kills you when it destroys the ability of an organ to fulfill its normal function within the body, perhaps there are thesholds in long-term AAS damage (and this may vary between individuals). Once a threshold has been breached - for example in the case of testicular atrophy - there is no way back and that system is now screwed.
Who knows. [/quote]
I have no doubt Deca Dick is brain related. I was a complete mess mentally when I stopped deca. A complete mess for a year! Now almost 2 years out, I’m certainly better but still not even close to back to normal. I’ve just learned to accept the new normal I guess.
I had tons and tons of labwork done. All came back normal. I’m on TRT so T levels never fell low either.
[/quote]
what were your prolactin levels after stopping deca?
Prolactin was right at 3 i believe at the conclusion of deca (NPP actually). I ran caber the entire time.
Prolactin leveled out around 7 after conclusion of caber.
I’ve concluded it had nothing to do with prolactin.
I honestly believe it screwed up my neurotransmitters.
How did this all turn out for the original poster?
Not sure about OP, but I myself contributed to this post and am nearly 4 years away from deca use and still have problems… I have been cared for by Crisler and Mariano as well as worked with Scally…, nothing has improved libido or erections.
We have concluded that the deca is history, but adrenal Dysregulation is the problem. The cause of the HPA Dysregulation is in the brain not the glands… Still working on fixing… Mariano has been a big help…
Thanks for keeping us updated. Its unfortunate that some of us are disproportionately impacted by the use of AAS compared to others. Some people recover quickly, some never. Fingers crossed for us all!
Over the 4 years I have gained incredible knowledge of how our systems work… Both naturally and Enhanced with supra physiological doses of androgens. The HPA dysregulation stems from an imbalance of neurotransmitters that were left awry when the deca was withdrawn. Additionally, it “appears” that in some mens systems the deca Adds to a partial adrenal shutdown leaving a man shut down AND neuros that are off disallowing a timely recovery. Some have fixed the problem with many different protocols… The ones who have fixed it don’t actually “know” for certain what fixed it… They just elevated their neuros while getting good restorative sleep and their body recovered… Some try everything known and nothing helps…
Deca dick is real. ED can be caused by many things… Deca can cause it from several different physiological mechanisms…
I am better than I was 4 years ago… For sure. But not recovered.
It is avoidable by using powerful amounts of HCG while discontinuing the deca… timing is critical, especially when a long cycle has been run. Many factors contribute to this problem. I advise if you are going to use Deca, learn before hand if you are a HYPO or HYPER excreter of androgens…this is why some men get nailed by Deca even when they follow proper PCT guidelines…
I myself for example, am a hypo extreter… It took 7 months for my TT levels to fall below 500 when I ended my cycle…this was proven with Plasma blood test along with Rhein urine test taken same days and times. I have repeated these results 3 times under a physicians care. My body holds on to androgens longer than most…( Deca included). Some men are the opposite ( Hyper extreters)… They excrete nearly as fast as their testicles can make it… leaving them with naturally low levels… forcing the adrenals to over work to add additional Test to his systems. Yes…the adrenals DO make testosterone as well.
Advise, ALWAYS run a strong PCT with HCG… And Run labs throughout… Be informed where your " setup" is…
Best,
Ztanz
Sorry to hear some of you guys are still experiencing symptoms years after. I suscribed to this post way back since I had used deca shortly and wanted to follow others experiences. I personally had minimum symptoms but did experience a temporary dip in sexual drive. No problems atm tho, sex drive feels peaked.
Anyway I wanted to share some possibly helpful information. There’s a natural health supplement called diatomaceous earth. I recommend looking into it because it is excellent at 1) flushing pharmaceutical residues and 2) balancing hormones. It’s available at most health food stores and is very inexpensive.
It also might be a good idea to consider a fast. 48 hrs would be good. Some drugs can still be hiding in your system. Some are stored in body fat. A fast would also help flush anything that’s left.
Combining both could help the body return to homeostasis. I’m assuming you’ve tried everything else. Hopefully some of this info could help.
Also I have found this article here that explain the brain mutation after to use steroids… and made me really afraid about what I will experience now…