# 8th Grade Test (If You Dare!)

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
If you want, let’s convert the test to modern terms:

1. Name and define four common arithmetical operations.

2. A wagon box is 2 ft. deep, 10 feet long, and 3 ft. wide. How many liters of wheat will it hold?

3. If a load of wheat weighs 1.567 tons., what is it worth at 50cts. per pound, deducting 1050 lbs. for tare?

4. District No. 33 has a valuation of \$35,000,000. What is the necessary tax millage to carry on a school seven months at \$50,000 per month, and have \$104,000 for incidentals?

5. Find cost of 6720 lbs. coal at \$6.00 per ton.

6. Find the interest of \$512.60 for 8 months and 18 days at 7 percent non-compounded.

7. What is the cost of 40 boards 12 inches wide and 16 ft. long at \$.20 per inch?

8. If a credit card balance is reduced by \$1535 and the interest rate is 17.5% APR, what is the yearly savings due to that reduction?

9. (omit, can’t think of a close parallel at the moment)

10. Write a Promissory Note, and a Receipt.

Not a single thing in here that isn’t modern and relevant.

WAAAAAH!!! It’s not relevant!!! Why would want anyone want to do those things when what they need to know is things about global warming and polar bears!!!

[/quote]

The more important point made in the article, is that our educational systems are such that we learn these things only as long as they are relevant to our lives. It’s the whole point behind the “Are you Smarter than a 5th Grader” TV Show, laugh at these fools that don’t remember arbitrarily chosen facts from 5th grade social studies, how dare you not remember who the 19th person to sign the Declaration of Independence was.

Granted, the questions you have come up with are not to that extreme, but the principle remains. In some circumstance that you have forgotten one of these “basic” facts, we have the wonders of the internet and a quick google search should easily sort you out so you can balance your checkbook and budget for that credit card interest/debt, and figure out the material cost for that addition to your house.

I did have a chuckle at you putting litres in for the wheat problem, as this is predominantly a US website and I’m not sure how many of our citizens are aware of the conversion of cubic centimeters → milliliters(I bet the steroid forum is well aware =p).

[quote]buffalokilla wrote:

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
A liter is a unit to measure liquid, so unless you want that wagon to hold wheat grass the example was off.[/quote]
Fail.
[/quote]

Thanks for proving HH’s point WhiteFlash.

[/quote]

Huh? A liter is the designated unit to measure volume. Volume is usually expressed as a liquid. You can buy a 50lb bale of wheat, or 2 liters of water. You can’t buy a 50 liter bale of wheat, at least not anywhere I’ve been.

So “2 ft. deep, 10 feet long, and 3 ft. wide” does not describe a volume?

Inability to remove the irrelevant from questions, and thus not getting the answer, is a common reason for failing exams and rightly so.

It doesn’t matter whether it’s wheat.

And as for any belief that volume has to refer to liquid or “almost has” to, this is allowing a personal and mistaken idea to interfere with solving the problem.

One of the main ideas of word problems is that they are a test of ability to see what in the question needs to be used and what does not.

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

[quote]buffalokilla wrote:

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
A liter is a unit to measure liquid, so unless you want that wagon to hold wheat grass the example was off.[/quote]
Fail.
[/quote]

Thanks for proving HH’s point WhiteFlash.

[/quote]

Huh? A liter is the designated unit to measure volume. Volume is usually expressed as a liquid. You can buy a 50lb bale of wheat, or 2 liters of water. You can’t buy a 50 liter bale of wheat, at least not anywhere I’ve been.[/quote]

Definition of liter: A metric unit of volume equal to approximately 1.056 liquid quarts, 0.908 dry quart, or 0.264 gallon. A dry quart is defined as a United States dry unit equal to 2 pints or 67.2 cubic inches

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

[quote]buffalokilla wrote:

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
A liter is a unit to measure liquid, so unless you want that wagon to hold wheat grass the example was off.[/quote]
Fail.
[/quote]

Thanks for proving HH’s point WhiteFlash.

[/quote]

Huh? A liter is the designated unit to measure volume. Volume is usually expressed as a liquid. You can buy a 50lb bale of wheat, or 2 liters of water. You can’t buy a 50 liter bale of wheat, at least not anywhere I’ve been.[/quote]

What size engine is in your vehicle?

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
If you want, let’s convert the test to modern terms:
Not a single thing in here that isn’t modern and relevant.

[/quote]

Probably poorly. I would do poorly, actually, since I have no idea how to convert between the units needed. Why? Because, it is generally useless and irrelevant. It would take me 5 seconds to look up the necessary conversion factors*.

It’s not something I use daily, or in my line of work (Software Development), so I don’t remember it. It’s useless to me. I think knowing the general algebraic idea behind unit conversion is FAR more important than remembering some stupid specific conversion factor.

There’s information that I know that I find trivial, and use regularly, that would completely stump others.

It’s a stupid test, even converted to “modern” terms.

*If it was all metric, I’d fair much better. Stupid imperial units.

Well, you know, some people are interested very many things and like having information that lets them understand very many things in very many fields when they read whatever or hear whatever, and others say that they don’t care and only do certain do things and will use a computer.

It’s fair enough for the first to do well on exams testing general education and the second, not so much.

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
So “2 ft. deep, 10 feet long, and 3 ft. wide” does not describe a volume?

Inability to remove the irrelevant from questions, and thus not getting the answer, is a common reason for failing exams and rightly so.

It doesn’t matter whether it’s wheat.

And as for any belief that volume has to refer to liquid or “almost has” to, this is allowing a personal and mistaken idea to interfere with solving the problem.

One of the main ideas of word problems is that they are a test of ability to see what in the question needs to be used and what does not.[/quote]

Duely noted.

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
Volume is usually expressed as a liquid.[/quote]

I don’t mean to pick on you, but the system has obviously failed you. Even if volume were exclusive to liquids, your sentence doesn’t make sense.

[quote]Grneyes wrote:
Definition of liter: A metric unit of volume equal to approximately 1.056 liquid quarts, 0.908 dry quart, or 0.264 gallon. A dry quart is defined as a United States dry unit equal to 2 pints or 67.2 cubic inches
[/quote]

Happy birthday by the way!

[quote]buffalokilla wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
Volume is usually expressed as a liquid.[/quote]

I don’t mean to pick on you, but the system has obviously failed you. Even if volume were exclusive to liquids, your sentence doesn’t make sense.

[quote]Grneyes wrote:
Definition of liter: A metric unit of volume equal to approximately 1.056 liquid quarts, 0.908 dry quart, or 0.264 gallon. A dry quart is defined as a United States dry unit equal to 2 pints or 67.2 cubic inches
[/quote]

Happy birthday by the way!
[/quote]

I dropped out of highschool as a freshman. Didn’t give the system enough time to fail me.

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

[quote]buffalokilla wrote:

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
A liter is a unit to measure liquid, so unless you want that wagon to hold wheat grass the example was off.[/quote]
Fail.
[/quote]

Thanks for proving HH’s point WhiteFlash.

[/quote]

Huh? A liter is the designated unit to measure volume. Volume is usually expressed as a liquid. You can buy a 50lb bale of wheat, or 2 liters of water. You can’t buy a 50 liter bale of wheat, at least not anywhere I’ve been.[/quote]

What size engine is in your vehicle?

[/quote]

3.6 liters! =)

pew pew!

[quote]Hellfrost wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

[quote]buffalokilla wrote:

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
A liter is a unit to measure liquid, so unless you want that wagon to hold wheat grass the example was off.[/quote]
Fail.
[/quote]

Thanks for proving HH’s point WhiteFlash.

[/quote]

Huh? A liter is the designated unit to measure volume. Volume is usually expressed as a liquid. You can buy a 50lb bale of wheat, or 2 liters of water. You can’t buy a 50 liter bale of wheat, at least not anywhere I’ve been.[/quote]

What size engine is in your vehicle?

[/quote]

3.6 liters! =)

pew pew![/quote]

5.7! =)

do I get a cookie now?

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

[quote]buffalokilla wrote:

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
A liter is a unit to measure liquid, so unless you want that wagon to hold wheat grass the example was off.[/quote]
Fail.
[/quote]

Thanks for proving HH’s point WhiteFlash.

[/quote]

Huh? A liter is the designated unit to measure volume. Volume is usually expressed as a liquid. You can buy a 50lb bale of wheat, or 2 liters of water. You can’t buy a 50 liter bale of wheat, at least not anywhere I’ve been.[/quote]

What size engine is in your vehicle?

[/quote]

350 CID

[quote]Amiright wrote:

[quote]Hellfrost wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

[quote]buffalokilla wrote:

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
A liter is a unit to measure liquid, so unless you want that wagon to hold wheat grass the example was off.[/quote]
Fail.
[/quote]

Thanks for proving HH’s point WhiteFlash.

[/quote]

Huh? A liter is the designated unit to measure volume. Volume is usually expressed as a liquid. You can buy a 50lb bale of wheat, or 2 liters of water. You can’t buy a 50 liter bale of wheat, at least not anywhere I’ve been.[/quote]

What size engine is in your vehicle?

[/quote]

3.6 liters! =)

pew pew![/quote]

5.7! =)

do I get a cookie now?

[/quote]

Heck yea!

How much hp you get? Mine outputs around 420.

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
Well, you know, some people are interested very many things and like having information that lets them understand very many things in very many fields when they read whatever or hear whatever, and others say that they don’t care and only do certain do things and will use a computer.

It’s fair enough for the first to do well on exams testing general education and the second, not so much.[/quote]

I don’t think that test actually tests what you’re implying, though. It requires regurgitating easily memorized (and forgotten) material. In actuality, it’s simply the application of memorized formulas. This shouldn’t be what education is about.

I want to work with the kid who can figure out the formulas himself, given time. The guy who can explain them, and prove they’re correct, even IF he has to look them up initially.

If it is supposed to be a math test (it certainly isn’t a test on general education), it’s a pretty pathetic test of mathematical knowledge, actually. Very pathetic. I’d expect a thirteen year old to have much more sophisticated mathematical understanding than simply being able to regurgitate simple trivial formulas and evaluate them.

It’s not even, now, necessary to be proficient at evaluating complex formulas involving say, integrals, quickly by hand. It’s a better skill to, for example, be able to program (at a higher level) a computer to do so efficiently using say, Matlab or Maple.

It’s about being able to use the tools available to get the job done, and today, that tool is a computer. The type of knowledge that is tested on this “test” is simply not very relevant today.

Uhm, this sorta went all off track. I’m not sure exactly even where you stand. Do you think the fact that many adults would fail your test is indicative of a serious education problem?

[quote]Hellfrost wrote:

[quote]Amiright wrote:

[quote]Hellfrost wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

[quote]buffalokilla wrote:

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
A liter is a unit to measure liquid, so unless you want that wagon to hold wheat grass the example was off.[/quote]
Fail.
[/quote]

Thanks for proving HH’s point WhiteFlash.

[/quote]

Huh? A liter is the designated unit to measure volume. Volume is usually expressed as a liquid. You can buy a 50lb bale of wheat, or 2 liters of water. You can’t buy a 50 liter bale of wheat, at least not anywhere I’ve been.[/quote]

What size engine is in your vehicle?

[/quote]

3.6 liters! =)

pew pew![/quote]

5.7! =)

do I get a cookie now?

[/quote]

Heck yea!

How much hp you get? Mine outputs around 420.[/quote]

Haven’t had it put on a dino… I’m expecting it to put out around 500. modified LS2 I put in my Cj5/buggy this past summer(dad owns a repair shop). Its not meant for the street so you got me beat.
/hijack

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
Well, you know, some people are interested very many things and like having information that lets them understand very many things in very many fields when they read whatever or hear whatever, and others say that they don’t care and only do certain do things and will use a computer.

It’s fair enough for the first to do well on exams testing general education and the second, not so much.[/quote]

I don’t think that test actually tests what you’re implying, though. It requires regurgitating easily memorized (and forgotten) material. In actuality, it’s simply the application of memorized formulas. This shouldn’t be what education is about.[/quote]

Um, no.

The ONLY thing required to have been “memorized” there (and really I think it’s more a matter of “known”) is that there are 2.54 centimeters in an inch.

And if someone has not picked that up after that many years of schooling, it is either poor education or a mind that does not want to know things such as that.

There are no “memorized formulas” either.

It is either being able to apply arithmetic to real problems or NOT being able to do so.

Yes, back in 1895 they thought that important. Some today obviously don’t, and this is borne out by the high percentage of students that can’t do word problems, even after graduating high school today let alone the 8th grade.

If someone can’t solve at least a high percentage of those modernized questions without Google, I think it is fair to say that there was an educational deficiency or a mind that simply didn’t have the interest in being able to figure things out such as that and therefore either never took it in (the more likely) or barely did so but then spat it back out again. There is NOT advanced math in there, or a requirement for having memorized arcane information.

If you call that an invalid test, OK.

Should the questions in an arithmetic test be more like, “Global warming threatens the polar bear. If we don’t all work together to stop global warming, will there be fewer polar bears?”

Yes.

Failing this test is like failing to read well. People could easily be stumped by the first problem simply by not realizing something. As soon as someone gives the answer to them, people will be like “Oooohh yah, I know that.”

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
The ONLY thing required to have been “memorized” there (and really I think it’s more a matter of “known”) is that there are 2.54 centimeters in an inch.
[/quote]

There is? Fascinating. Never knew that until now. I guess it’s never come up in my daily or professional (admittedly, I am young) life.

Guess I’m an idiot.

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
And if someone has not picked that up after that many years of schooling, it is either poor education or a mind that does not want to know things such as that.
[/quote]

It’s not important to memorize. If I need to know it, I can look it up very very quickly. Since I’ve never needed to know it, I’ve never looked it up, and hence it hasn’t been memorized.

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
There are no “memorized formulas” either.
[/quote]

Sure there are: simple and compound interest formulas.

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
It is either being able to apply arithmetic to real problems or NOT being able to do so.
[/quote]

Being able to convert between units is important. Being able to evaluate an algebraic formula is important. Remembering trivial details like there’s 2.54 centimeters in an inch is not. Remembering a specific formula, without understanding it’s derivation (and this test does NOT test that type of ability), is not really that important.

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
Yes, back in 1895 they thought that important. Some today obviously don’t, and this is borne out by the high percentage of students that can’t do word problems, even after graduating high school today let alone the 8th grade.
[/quote]

My 13 year old nephew is solving systems of linear equations. That is all.

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
WAAAAAH!!! It’s not relevant!!! Why would want anyone want to do those things when what they need to know is things about global warming and polar bears!!!
[/quote]
lol