T Nation

8 Wk Test E (FL) + Dbol Kickstart


#1

long time lurker, first time poster.

5'11".5". currently 205 lbs around 10%. previous cycle experience consists of an 8 week cycle of test prop (100mg/ml) dosed at 130 mg eod. adex was dosed at .25mg eod throughout the cycle. pct was a standard nolva 40 40 20 20. gained a solid ass 9 lbs when it was all said and done.

im starting a test e cycle kickstarted with dbol in early august. this is my preliminary plan for how to run it:

wk 1-8: test e @ 700 mg/wk (FL=850mg)(followed by 350 mg injects on mon morning/thurs night)
wk 1-4: dbol 30mg ED
wk 1-10: adex (FL=1mg)followed by .25mg ED on cycle, tapered down wks 9-10 going into pct.
wk 11-14: nolva at 40 40 20 20

QUESTIONS:
- still unsure about frontloading the adex. seems that the high levels of androgens right off the bat would necessitate high levels of adex to keep everything in check.
- does the adex indeed need to be tapered down in the two weeks following my last injection and prior to my first day of nolva? if so, would decreasing to .25mg EOD for week 9 and .25 nmg E3D for week 10 be effective?
- dbol is 10mg tabs. planning on dosing them 3X/day. correct or not?
- i calculated my FL by using formula weekly mgs x half life/7 + interval mgs. does my math look right? also, should i frontload on day one only, or days 1 and 2? i have seen both options presented in my searches...

finally, does my weekly dose of 700 mg seem appropriate given that i was running prop between 390 and 520 mg/wk?? my source wants to see me at 700 mg/wk, rationale being that prop ester has more mg of test than e or c. meaning that 600-650 mg/wk of test e isnt going to cut it at this point.

my thanks gentlemen.


#2

[quote]decadick wrote:
long time lurker, first time poster.

5’11".5". currently 205 lbs around 10%. previous cycle experience consists of an 8 week cycle of test prop (100mg/ml) dosed at 130 mg eod. adex was dosed at .25mg eod throughout the cycle. pct was a standard nolva 40 40 20 20. gained a solid ass 9 lbs when it was all said and done.

im starting a test e cycle kickstarted with dbol in early august. this is my preliminary plan for how to run it:

wk 1-8: test e @ 700 mg/wk (FL=850mg)(followed by 350 mg injects on mon morning/thurs night)
wk 1-4: dbol 30mg ED
wk 1-10: adex (FL=1mg)followed by .25mg ED on cycle, tapered down wks 9-10 going into pct.
wk 11-14: nolva at 40 40 20 20

QUESTIONS:

  • still unsure about frontloading the adex. seems that the high levels of androgens right off the bat would necessitate high levels of adex to keep everything in check. [/quote]

Your logic IS correct, and higher levels of aromatisable androgens requires higher doses of AI - HOWEVER in practice there is little need to frontload the adex IME.
If you think about it - the frontload is only to achieve the peak levels that would be achieved eventually anyway. IF you use 0.25mg ED for the cycle anyway, then this should work fine for a frontloaded cycle too - Test does take time to ‘kick in’ even with a frontload, and by the time this has built upto peak levels (not of drug, but of effect), the adex will be up and running.

That said, i would be inclined to run a higher dose of Adex during the dbol portion of the cycle.[quote]

  • does the adex indeed need to be tapered down in the two weeks following my last injection and prior to my first day of nolva? if so, would decreasing to .25mg EOD for week 9 and .25 nmg E3D for week 10 be effective?[/quote]

This would be considered the same question as the first one - however in practice it is different again.
I would reduce the adex dose - i wouldnt taper it, as that is only really necessary by the very anally retentive - but i would reduce it some.
If 0.25mg ED is sufficient for on cycle (and according to the past cycle, it should be) then i would say that for the last 10 days before PCT that 0.15mg ED/0.25mg EOD would be fine.[quote]

  • dbol is 10mg tabs. planning on dosing them 3X/day. correct or not?[/quote]

Fine ;)[quote]

  • i calculated my FL by using formula weekly mgs x half life/7 + interval mgs. does my math look right? also, should i frontload on day one only, or days 1 and 2? i have seen both options presented in my searches…[/quote]

I calculate a frontload differently, but mine was only different by 30mg so it will be fine!
Whether you split the injections over 2 days depends on your ability to ‘take’ high volume injections. I would never recommend one inject more than 2ml at a time anyway, and with 850mg split into 2 injections (left and right for example), the volume is 2 x 1.7ml. Now, if you think that will hurt, you could split those two injections into 4 and do them in 4 muscle groups or over 2 days.
I’d do them on the first day personally…

Trust me, for a second cycle 600mg/wk Test E would be ample for results - there is really little need to jump in dose every cycle and even less for that jump to be 150mg each time (455mg from first cycle to 600mg TE potential second cycle), let ALONE the 250mg jump you are planning.
If this was the case i’d be near 3g of test per cycle now!

However 700mg was one of my favourite doses for Test in regards to side:results ratio.[quote]

my thanks gentlemen.

[/quote]

No problem.

Brook


#3

It’s a solid cycle plan. FL for test e is good with the planned interval. Doing the full FL on day 1 gets the AAS into you that much quicker and that is my preference. I also prefer EOD for even more stable blood levels. If you don’t want to jump to 700mg/w immediatly, you can go with 600mg or stay at 500mg. Don’t worry too much about the prop comparison.

Adex FL of 1 mg and planned 0.25mg/d throughout is fine and you can tweak the dose if you feel high or low estrogen. During your two waiting weeks you can slowly taper Adex something like this:

Week 9:

Day 1: 0.25mg Adex
Day 2: 0.25mg Adex
Day 3: 0.25mg Adex
Day 4: 0.2mg Adex
Day 5: 0.2mg Adex
Day 6: 0.2mg Adex
Day 7: 0.2mg Adex

Week 10:

Day 1: 0mg Adex
Day 2: 0.25mg Adex
Day 3: 0mg Adex
Day 4: 0.25mg Adex
Day 5: 0mg Adex
Day 6: 0.25mg Adex
Day 7: 0mg Adex

Adex can be continued during PCT and for a while after at 0.14mg EOD as a maintenance dose for low normal male estrogen.


#4

excellent. thanks for the help.

  • i’ll run 600 mg rather than the planned 700 mg.

frontload calculation: 600 x 5/7 + 300 = 730 mg FL. correct or should i bump it up to 750 or 800mg?

  • in terms of frontloading the adex, whether you believe its necessary or not, would there be any downside to frontloading it?
  • i will run a higher dose of adex while im on the dbol (thanks for pointing that out brook). would 0.5mg ED be an effective dose, given the bloating effect of enth and also the higher risk of gyno with dbol + test? or should i start with .25mg ED considering that i ran .25 mg EOD on the prop and had good results. i should mention that although i have never gotten actual gyno, i am prone to it (soft nipples genetically).
  • dynamo: thanks for the tapering plan on the adex.

superb advice once again.

edit: im trying to minimize the number of injections during this cycle. is a mon morn/thurs night injection split going to be effective, or should i bump it to E3D (MON tues weds THURS fri sat SUN…). will i be reducing potential gains with a 2 day split when compared to EOD? im wary of EOD because im going to be a very busy person starting in the fall and if EOD is recommended i will run prop again…


#5

[quote]decadick wrote:
excellent. thanks for the help.

  • i’ll run 600 mg rather than the planned 700 mg.

frontload calculation: 600 x 5/7 + 300 = 730 mg FL. correct or should i bump it up to 750 or 800mg?
[/quote]

730 is fine. No need to add more.

No, I don’t see any downside. Another option is to start the Adex (at your planned cycle dosage) about 1 week prior to starting the test e so it can build up. I just started a new test e cycle and I front loaded 1mg on day 1.

I would go with 0.25mg/d while on test only and as Brook suggested 0.5mg while on both compounds. Dbol aromatizes big time. You can always ajust if estrogen sides are felt.

Pleasure

2x/w is fine.


#6

One additional modification you may want to make is to move dbol weeks to end of cycle to maximize waiting weeks before PCT and get the full power of test combined with the full power of dbol as opposed to the beginning of the cycle where test e may not kick in for a week or two even with a front load. This gives you a chance to gauge the potency of your test e before adding another compound. Just another option. That’s how I’m running my cycle.


#7

dynamo: thanks for the additional help. ive actually been kicking around the idea of using the dbol during the last 4 weeks to take advantage of the synergy between the two compounds. when i start this cycle i know i will be greedy for immediate gains, but i might wait and throw it in at the end.


#8

[quote]decadick wrote:
dynamo: thanks for the additional help. ive actually been kicking around the idea of using the dbol during the last 4 weeks to take advantage of the synergy between the two compounds. when i start this cycle i know i will be greedy for immediate gains, but i might wait and throw it in at the end. [/quote]

I know its tough sitting on perfectly good dbol, but as they say “All good things come to those who wait” and “Patience is a virtue” and “Short term pain for long term gain”. OK, enough already…

Remember Dbol can be well tolerated for up to 6 weeks.


#9

im late to the party here but I will chime in,even though everything been said already.

front loading adex is not needed,the stuff works so fast theres just no need to.
start with .25mg ed and in couple weeks if you see signs you need more move up from there.

700mg test is a decent dose, I find that is around where I like it.
at 1gm a week I get a little anxious but im good too, thats where im at right now
500mg every monday/thurs.with that I need to take 1mg a’dex ed though or i get a little itchy.

everything else looks good though just keep it simple and dont over think things,also stay consistent like everything else and youll do good on this dose.


#10

well, i have some things to ponder here. 700 mg or 600 mg test/wk. frontloading the adex or not. running the dbol at the beginning or at the end. stretching it to 6 weeks instead of running it for 4. (i realize that 30 mg/day of dbol is on the low end, and i would prefer to run it at 40 mg for 5 weeks, but in my case more pills is substantially more money).

thanks again for all those who took time out of their day to give really informative help. it is much appreciated on this end.