T Nation

8 Weeks on TRT, Feeling Sore and Weak

Hello and thanks in advance. Looking for advice.
50yrs 6’1 185 lbs always in shape- recently putting weight on

Background-
Was diagnosed with Lyme back in 2012. Stiffness, brain fog, lethargic, libido issues and occasional vertigo. Lot of neuro symptoms.

Antibiotics, herbal, diet and cleanses, helped me feel stronger by 2014. But libido was still big issue and still very stiff, joint pain, stiff neck, forgetfulness… Brian was working better though.

Could not get over the hump and was convinced all problems were coming from lyme.
Docs gave up and gave me high dose of Anti-Inflammatory. Diagnosed with bad hip that needs replaced in late 2016.

Research led me to ask for blood on testosterone.
2018 tested T = 287. Free T = 50.5
2019 tested 237 total and 28.4 free after a year trying to increase naturally.

Current- Endo doc has me on T gel 1% 2.5
6 weeks in total T 355, free 50.4
only thing I noticed was more morning wood.
Doc increases to double 2x 2.5 @1%

Few days in and I feel like crap. Achy all over and very pronounced in joints all. Neck very stiff, lethargic, body temp a little off and very weak libido. Also can feel old injuries being resurrected.

Spoke with doc a few days in after increase and he said all looked fine and keep with it.
Doc is old school and seems reluctant to go higher and warns of harmful possibilities so I understand I’ll need to find a long term solution to reach my optimum levels (what ever they might be)
Since I am still testing positive for lyme I feel he thinks their is some connection.

My theory- I think its obvious by the low # I need to be on T. But I should still be pretty low (test) so confused why I feel so crappy.
Please let me know of any ideas or advice. Thanks
37%20AM

Also
DHEA 267 on 5/7/2018

Hi colecat do you live in the US can you afford to go private?
You really need a better doc. Coming back for Lymes is difficult.

1 Like

Sounds like an E2 problem. You can wait it out, or trying going down on the dose for a while. Like maybe only do the higher dose every other day for a while. It would be easier to adjust dose if you were on a shot, but you’re not. It would be good to now your current E2 numbers.

Your doctors seems to be apprehensive and anxious directing your TRT protocol, maybe it’s time to seek someone who specializes in TRT likely outside your insurance network. These 1% T gels aren’t very ineffective and no experienced doctor would ever consider such an ineffective treatment.

Men down the road suddenly stop absorbing T gels and usually end up on injections at some point in the future.

The 200mg 20% T creams applied to the scrotum and becoming popular, if that doesn’t provide good results there is always injectable testosterone. TSH looks great, would have been nice to see the only free thyroid hormone and most important Free T3.

This statement tells me your doctor is basing his decision on old information, probably the 1941 Huggins & Hodges report:

(1) Reducing T to castrate levels caused prostate cancer to regress.

(2) Administration of exogenous T caused prostate cancer to grow.

When you look at the study you’ll see it’s based on a single patient!

So he thinks the lower your testosterone, that protects you from prostate cancer and this is commonly believed by many doctors which is why men find it so difficult to get TRT prescribed, only studies are showing men with low T are showing more aggressive prostate cancer than those with high testosterone. You doctor is indeed old school and dangerous for patients.

High normal testosterone is shown the be more cardioprotective than mid normal testosterone levels and even less protection below mid normal levels.

If you find it difficult to locate a knowledgeable TRT specialists, you should consider Defy Medical, a telemedicine clinic.

Thanks for advice
Trying to get blood work at moment, waiting to hear back from doc.

Today feel more alert and with less neck pain but knees cracking and joints bad.

If anyone has recommendation of Doc in NY/Westchester regions please let me know.

Thanks in advance.

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@colecat

Was your lyme diagnosis based on symptoms or blood work? I ask since most docs now dont technically treat lyme like they should and the Western blot vs Elisa testing protcols are so out of wack with what is actually going on in the body – its maddening. So just curious if they said “could be lyme could be auto immune could be RA” etc …

Doctors approach regarding lyme is very similar to TRT. Its been a frustrating road and most was done without doctors help.

Bull’s eyes at tick bite in 1999 - never any symptoms as was on antibiotics immediately.
Blood work tested positive in 2012
Blood work tested negative in 2015
Blood work positive again in 2017

I keep up a regiment of herbs and diet to deal with lyme.
When i spoke with doc regarding adding TRT after my score came back low he was reluctant. I went to a different endo doc and he was even less inclined to give TRT and pretty much said the 1st Doc was wrong to suggest. He basically said I was depressed form lyme and probably it was affecting the T score as I was dealing with an auto-immune…

Update 3 weeks later
Had blood drawn {see attached}
Totale T 692
Estradiol 29

{Current- Endo doc has me on T gel 1% 2.5
6 weeks in total T 355, free 50.4
only thing I noticed was more morning wood.
Doc increases to double 2x 2.5 @1%} – Where I am currently at

Same symptoms as above for 3 weeks (weaker, joint pain. stiff body especially neck, low libido)
Over all feeling nothing positive from test. And my numbers really went up.
Now nipples feel itchy…

The last blood results seen here were not from my endo dr but from urologist I also see.
They are in same place so they speak the same. And are only testing for total test I had to ask for him to test estradiol.

As i said earlier I am taking this time to do as much research to learn more etc as I know these are newbie

questions and realize I will have to move to a doctor who is current and understands.
But would like any help in understanding why I am feeling worse then I did without adding test.
And I understand I am not providing enough lab but this is all they are testing me for.

Thanks

Your free t is the same as when you tested in 2018. No wonder you don’t feel any better. I would take more testosterone and go to injections unless you want to slather your entire body with gel.

Ask for scrotul cream form a compound pharmacy and that will work better than injections and keep e2 in check.

Your natural production likely is shut down and your TRT honeymoon is over, now you will have to wait until your body adapts now that your HPTA is turned off which usually happens in 1-3 weeks.

I get a stick neck when testosterone is elevated and on a new protocol, nipples are itchy do to hormonal fluctuations and is transient, it will pass in about 3 weeks.

Thanks
I never had a honeymoon though. I wanted the honeymoon to get an idea of what it would be like :slight_smile: Nothing easy.
For the 1st 6 weeks nothing really changed at all. Morning wood was better but not night and day difference. But i was only at 355 at that point.

So stay the course?
I have appointment with dr in 1 week. I think he will try to reduce test now that i’m at 650.
I feel he will say the problems are reaction to being high but offer nothing else.
Just trying to educate and figured their would be a curve but this is steeper then I thought.

Thank You