T Nation

8 Weeks In - Potential Bunk Gear


#1

Hey there!
1st post, so please let me know if I’m not following the correct format!
I’m male, 31, living in London UK and as I post this - in week 8 of a planned 12 week Test Cyp cycle - 1st cycle. I’ve trained hard for 8 years and decided to take the plunge with Test Cyp.

Pre cycle stats - 100kg, 6foot 4inches, estimated 13% BF (callipers), 16.5 inch bicep, 38inch waist, 39 inch hips, 45inch chest, 52 inch shoulders, 22 inch quad, 16 inch calves.
(I understand this would be a hell of a lot easier with a simple photo - but I’m heavily tattoo’d with very distinct all over body tattoos which would make me instantly recognisable to friends and family - I also have a career in finance which I can’t jeopardise over running a test cycle - hence the need for anonymity!)

Blood work prior - due to being connected to the UK Health system through my work - asking my doctor for blood profile would be unwise and could have ramifications - therefore I had to go private - which restricted the tests I could afford to go for.
I opted for a full chemical profile and Test levels.
(Can be posted fully upon request).
Test levels prior to cycle - 14.6 nmol/L (421 ng/dl) - not great admittedly!
Rest of chemical profile - pretty much all in range…

Cycle has been -
Weeks 1-8 - test Cyp (British Dragon) 300mg - pinning twice a week = 600mg per week.
Weeks 1-4 - Anadrol (Oxy) - 50mg - twice a day.
Weeks 6-8 - Arimidex - 0.5mg - EOD.

Blood work - at week 8 - had blood drawn 3 days after my last pin - just before I had my next pin.
This is where i am to believe I have bought bunk gear - my test levels came back at 30.6 nmol/L (882 ng/dl) - I was obviously expecting significantly higher levels!!!
Stats wise - I’ve gone up to 112kg - (12% increase) but there has definitely been too much fat gain - hips have gone to 43 inches, although have got gains all over body - 17.75 inch biceps, 17 inch calves, 24 inch quads, 47 inch chest, 55 inch shoulders…

Whilst I’ve obviously been gaining - due to the low T levels - I am to suspect that this has been through hard work, eating a shit load (5,000+ calories a day) and high volume split everyday in the gym…
Strength wise - definitely also gone up - though now I look at this as a mix of everyday training brining strength increases, combined with high calorie intake and a psychosomatic effect of ‘being on cycle’…

So - here’s my quandary - what to do? I’m certain my Test has something (hence T levels going up - but nowhere near to the expected levels) so is probably underdosed…
Continue with the cycle to week 12 as normal?
Up the dose to 400mg (I have 12ml left @ 200mg / ml - this would only give me 3 more weeks) or even higher?!
I’m obviously gonna be calling my guy to question the validity of his gear - is there any merit in upping the dose and stretching this out to week 12/14/16 if he comes back offering more of the same…?
Stack with something (I’m certain the Oxy I took weeks 1-4 was legit as this is when I put on a lot of size/strength quickly…) ?
Forget about this cycle, jump on PCT and find a new guy to try again next year?!

Any advice greatly appreciated, I will aim to add in additional info as and when requested, your help is appreciated in advance!

Thanks!


#2

I remember feeling some what similar during my first cycle, I got gains but they weren’t as spectacular as I had hoped for(however in hindsight the were pretty good). I was able to get bloods, it confirmed my test levels were massively high, many times over normal levels.

Your first cycle is basically an experiment to see how you react to the drugs, and fine tuning as you go, from what you have learned.

You have put on over an inch on your arms. Yes some of it is also water/fat weight, but most is probably genuine muscle. That kind of growth doesn’t happen to guys that have several years training under their belt. So I’d say your gear is legit.

Many guys would now be tempted to increase the mg/wk for their next cycle.
I would personally repeat this same cycle at least 2 more times, before deciding if you really need the increase. I feel the cumulative growth you can keep from multiple cycles is the key to steroid usage, rather than just increasing the dosage to get the results.


#3

Not sure about your blood test results, but your test levels are over double pre supplementation, and just beyond maximum level. Whether the labs have just given a “maximum” reading rather than diluting it and re testing it to give you better accuracy, could be an explanation.
Also your blood test was several days after your last shot and that could also reduce the amount of test showing up.


#4

Hey BB - thanks for replying!
I agree - a lot of this is expectations being met or otherwise; to be honest - I’ve managed to get up to 110kg naturally when bulking previously - so my expectations for this cycle were to probably hit 115-120kg by week 12 - dropping down to 110-115kg after PCT and water weight have gone.
As it stands - I could keep stuffing my face and endeavour to hit 120kg - but I know I’m putting on too much fat as is - and this would just be a continuation to hit the 120kg for the sake of it…

I can confirm this is not the labs just putting 31 as their ‘max’ reference range as some other markers were way over - my CK levels were 640 in a ref range of 38-204 - explained obviously by having worked out - but they are definitely capable of stating ‘over’ reference range results.
However, this is has been on my mind - when do people normally get their blood work done? Was waiting 3.5 days too long? I’ve seen some people coming back with approx 4000 ng/dl - are these guys pinning 5 minutes before having their bloods taken?!

I’ve definitely learnt a lot in this cycle and as I’m sure many people will say - this is just the first step in a long journey (!) - I just feel a little dampened on the results so far, this blood work suggests the gear I have probably has some test - but nowhere near expected volumes - and as you can imagine - I’ve invested heavily in this cycle - I waited months until this time of year knowing it was my quietest time of year with work that I could dedicate myself to it fully, I spent months convincing the wife that this was all safe etc, my food bills have been astronomical (over 500 GBP a month on just me alone!) as well as meticulously planning my workouts and time in the gym… Given my blood work I’m at the point of thinking 80% of the results would have been gained anyway given the resources I’ve thrown at this cycle - and 20% has come from the T - which isn’t the the best of returns…!

Still happy to here anymore great advice - especially keen to hear what anyone has to say at this point about continuation of the cycle / upping dose / stacking…?


#5

[quote]mattickle wrote:

This is where i am to believe I have bought bunk gear - my test levels came back at 30.6 nmol/L (882 ng/dl) [/quote]
Of course it’s bunk. That’s like 100-150mg/week.


#6

Cut your losses and go straight to PCT. You can start now.


#7

Hey dt79 - is there no merit in increasing/doubling up on the last remaining vial I have for a final 2-3 weeks?? Was thinking of going for 2ml shots (biggest the syringe can handle) for my final few shots?
I think I can say with certainty its underdosed - but surely 12 weeks at (what has probably been more like) 150mg Test Cyp is gonna be better than ending now - will have only been an 8 week cycle?
Happy to hear your thoughts!


#8

Well, most of your gains probably came from drol since you were using what was essentially a replacement dose of T. If you start increasing your T dose now, it will take another 3-4 weeks to reach peak levels. Doubling the dose will give you at most 300mg when it peaks.

On the other hand, you can stop now and hopefully have a faster recovery, fix your low T levels ASAP and jump on another cycle sooner if so desired. You can go into PCT right now since the exogenous T levels are so low.


#9

PCT now for sure.


#10

Thanks guys - solid advice - greatly appreciated - I’ll get on that from next week.


#11

Potentially bunk gear? Maybe. Try another supplier for your next cycle, and see if there is a difference in results. All I know is nobody puts on +1" of muscle on their arms in 8 weeks, after having 8 years of solid training, unless they are on the drugs.

With your bloods, did you tell them you were on exogenous androgens? If not did the results mention about possible usage, or high normal endogenous levels?