Why do you only ‘suppose’? Do you not see the value in having a complete picture? Guy could have e2 at double the reference range—which would be unusual—and that info could be helpful. Or he could be normal and tell us nothing. The point is that bloodwork that doesn’t cover everything is by definition purposely missing something. I just don’t see the justification for doing that when the alternative is pretty much the same thing but with one more test run.
2 Likes
Trying to understand with what you are saying but still confused.
If I doubled the cream dosage then i should get better results as well? I understand its not as efficient to a direct injection but I should see an improvement is my thought. Or by keep going higher I am going further away from a balance. This is what is scaring me.
Just trying to understand why libido and side effect of very difficult to orgasm is the worse its ever been at. Was much better when I was on a much lower dose with gels and it was better before I started to where i am at now. But again for the 1st 8 weeks on the cream there was a definite improvement to the gels.
So would a total of 392 free T be different between cream and injectable?
If my estrogen level has gotten too high on the cream does the injectable react different when converting to Estrogen?
My doc doesn’t check estrogen because he wants to dial me in with just the cream. I’m just very frustrated but really appreciate all for helping me understand.
Thanks
I say ‘suppose’because, Ok, lets say your E doubled. The next step will be prescribing you an AI. This is not where you want to head from this point. Therefore you want to move forward, not backwards. The AI will set you back. So the step forward is to continue with the dose you felt good at and let things settle, or get on the injection train and get a better grasp on how this affects you. The cream is simply not consistent and this will cause you to go into a perpetual state of flux. The gel doses are definitely out of your system so you were probably getting a good boost when you switched to cream. Now that the transition is over the cream is not enough to make you feel great. Look… if you would’ve told me 3 years ago that Im bound to spend the rest of my life poking myself with a needle I would’ve laughed at you and said ‘No fucking way’. Now I stick myself daily. You dont have to be a daily guy. 2x a week is your future.
1 Like
I dont see the value in reading E2 levels if you’re a healthy male on TRT. Mine has been a mystery for some time and its not what affects my life. Low T does affect me though. Something that is becoming clear to me is that skin delivery systems can give virtual numbers. Theyre simply numbers you can read and compute as the best numbers you have ever seen, but they mean nothing when you consider the patient. When the delivery of T is via injection, things become real. There is mental wellness, controlled aggression, body composition, an aura of masculinity that leads to women giving compliments that lift the spirits and the cock. These things feed libido. I have dreams when I meet a new lady who happened to comment on my smile and traps. Cream will never give you this. So I think E is not something to scrutinize.
1 Like
Problem is I never felt great on T at the doses I was at. Good not great.
I did gels for a year knowing I wasn’t going to be long term with gels. But it did improve some libido issues but didn’t eliminate. Could feel the potential as I was at 230 total T at the time, just wasn’t making enough impact with gels.
The cream again was intense for 6 weeks then light switched off at 8 weeks. But even at its peek at 6-8 weeks I still had issue but felt I was moving in right direction and would be happier to get back there.
So confused where to go back to?
My feeling is my E is off because I went pretty high up in free T and crashed and can’t get back to pre crash, but everything non libido related is fine.
Not opposed to injecting if needed and cheaper then cream but not sure adding more T is the answer when i felt better at lower dose, only because I still had a libido and could orgasm without much drama. But if that was the best i was gonna get out of T then I would reconsider why I started.
Think I understand what your saying
Since i still had the gel in my system when starting the cream I had elevated numbers and T in my system. After 8 weeks the gel was out of body and now just the cream? Makes sense.
But why would I crash? when I never crashed on the gels. Gels maybe wasn’t strong enough to effect the E?
Doc wants me to up daily cream intake by 50%
Since I crashed libido my feeling was going higher not the right move.
Thanks for helping!!
Or just lower the dose. Yes, doctors are idiots and go with an AI first, but unless they’re force feeding it to you twice a week it’s not like you have to take it. When on trt an AI shouldn’t be used unless it’s a last resort. But that doesn’t mean monitoring e2 is a waste of time.
Any updates?
@colecat any updates? I had a similar crash on the cream after feeling pretty good for a while. Wondering if you switched to injections?
Sorry didn’t see reply
Same as when last wrote. Very disappointed. Dr understands my frustrations but he’s really not offering much at this point.
I went several weeks at half dosage then had a surgery. Been several now at 175mg 2x a day. Originally i was at 150mg 2x a day.
No improvements and don’t feel much different at any of these dosages. Again my energy mood and sleep have been good from beginning and have really not changed regardless of dosage.
For me it is really just libido and have not had luck when experimenting. Figured that libido would of had some changes.
I go back for blood work and dr will check estrogen. But I have my doubts since I haven’t changed with the various changes. 1st 2 months were good last 4 have been frustrating.
Would you ever do a trial of AI to see if there are changes? Just curious as my dr is not for but would for a short time to see if there are positive changes.
I want to see current blood work.
What’s your prolactin at?
No improvements.
Reduced and increased over last few months with no noticeable changes.
Was thinking estradiol was high so reduced test. Do not have results for estradiol at previous times just from latest blood work.
So currently free test is 157, total test 619 and estradiol is 38.
Libido is still very low and orgasms difficult. Has been this way since 8 weeks.
I go up I go down and I can’t feel any differences in anything.
Doc is confused and thinks I need 2nd opinion… Not happy about that.
But he says cream might be ineffective and doesn’t want to describe it any more and wants to move to injectables if I stay with him.
Concerned that switching to injectables could also be a time waste as the creams have been. Not sure if I have an underlying issue. But other than libido issues I feel very good. Energy and sleep good. Body strong and weight fine 6’2 at 185lb.
Any advice would be great!! Thanks in advance.
My free T at 6 weeks was 391
12 weeks 280
6 months 157
Estradiol - 38
DHEA -194 current. Have stopped supplementing with. Was 505 at 6 weeks 25 mg a day.
Either you got shit cream or it isn’t absorbing for you for whatever reason.
I’d switch to injections ASAP and figure out the cream issue later if you really want to.
2 Likes
It did get my free T up to 391, that’s why so confused
The issues is cream doesnt work as well as expected for most. You can stare at the numbers all you want and you will still be feeling like crap. What could you really change? Pinning yourself is the answer, and no its not a waste of time like the cream or we would all be out of luck too. Its been way too long to continue this path.
2 Likes
True, but it isn’t there any more, for whatever reason… time to try option #2
The free T is down because the dose was cut in half.
I agree with what you guys are are saying regarding injectables. I like the 2 days a week as apposed to 2x a day and money factor.
I just wanted to make sure i do not have any underlying issues that is preventing the Test from being a benefit to me. I went through a rough battle with Lyme disease a few years back and still have inflammation issues.
Will talk to doctor about injectables
Doc is pushing for the second opinion… Really fed up at this point and especially with him.
So he refers another one with $900 office visit. To do all the same test etc.
I’m in NY Westchester area if someone would like to recommend a doctor who understands hormones.
Do telemedicine