T Nation

7 Yr Old Girl Killed in Police Raid


#1

http://www.freep.com/article/20100516/NEWS01/100516012/1001/rss01


#2

already been posted in the cop raid marijuana thread

.greg.


#3

Burning when she was shot. That sucks.
I thought this was going to be about Afghanistan at first.


#4

cliff notes: 7 year old girl on fire shot and then her grandfather was forced on the ground with his face in glass and her blood while they told him she would be fine. Awesome job pigs.


#5

That was concerning to read. So, armed police throw a flashbang in first before assaulting and supposedly upon impact it hit the child (nothing you can do about that, I guess), burning her, then they rush the house and the kid ends up dead. I can only assume one(?) of the officers didn't have the required state of mind or situational awareness to deal with an armed raid.

I know they were searching for a guy suspected of homicide and are well in their right to be on edge, but a 7 year old girl should be easily identified as a non-threat in a situation like that - flashbang or not.


#6

The police are calling it an accidental discharge, which is almost more worrying than that someone would have mistaken a little girl on fire for a threat. Think about it; they are entering a building with innocent people in it and exercising poor trigger discipline.


#7

They sure do seem to be having a lot of accidents.

If a doctor had "accidents" that often, they would lose their license.


#8

While I agree with your post - too many accidents should be cause for termination, putting accidents in quotation marks makes it seem like you believe these officers intentionally murdered this little girl.

Is that what you think or is that just what you want us to interpret from your post?


#9

That is not what I think. What I think is that police have gone overboard with their tactics as a response to much heavier hitters they may come across during arrest warrants. They are now breaking down doors and shooting animals and kids by accident for SUSPECTS or PEOPLE WITH WATER PIPES IN THEIR HOUSE. It is an overreaction and the problem lies in both the law and their tactics.

It should be very difficult, at least I would think our founding fathers would think so, to get a search warrant for a house that is personal property.

This is the privacy of US citizens we are talking about so when kids get shpt for SUSPECTS of a murder investigation and dogs get killed for personal amounts of weed, maybe we should start asking just how easy it is to get a warrant in the first place.


#10

I think it depends on what you mean by accident. They may have intentionally shot the girl after mistakenly identifying her as a threat. In that case, yes, the killing was intentional.

The accidental discharge would mean they did not mean to fire, in which case the killing is accidental. I don't know that I buy this. Unless he somehow managed to fall and drop the gun onto the trigger, thereby killing the girl, he pointed the gun at the girl and he pulled the trigger.

I find it more likely that the cops barged into the room all psyched up to meet an armed murderer and encountered the girl panicked and screaming because she was on fire and shot her in their panic. No one accidentally fired their weapon. Someone pulled a trigger. Though it assuredly is a case of mistaken identity, I'll bet money the killing was on purpose.


#11

Maybe I misread the story but they actually found the suspect in the house in which they got the warrant. So apparently their suspicion was correct.

Also, it is not an overreaction for police to go into a house aggressively, with appropriate force where there is a MURDER suspect hiding. Murder is pretty serious business. Water bongs, etc. or whatever else you're referring to, I agree, although I'm not even sure which article you're referring to.


#12

Either way, killing the girl was an accident, whether it be from accidental discharge or mistakenly identifying her as a threat.

I don't know what side of the fence I fall on, there are far too little details at this point, but on the surface I agree that it seems unlikely an officer trained in using firearms would accidentally fire their weapon.


#13

oh man Lanky you've just opened up a can of worms lol. Some of the examples (the bong stuff) in this thread comes from the Police raid house for Marijuana thread from last week or so.

.greg.


#14

EDIT: I believe the article said the weapon discharged while an officer was in a struggle with the GRANDMOTHER of the victim? Or am I wrong?

Very sad though about the little girl.

.greg.


#15

The witnesses there are saying the flash bang and the gunshot were in rapid succession. That doesn't seem to add up.


#16

Think for a second about how an officer preparing for possible confrontation is going to hold a rifle. He's going to hold it in front of him, across his body from shoulder to hip, muzzle pointing down. This prevents most accidental discharges from being harmful to anyone, however it puts the officer at a serious disadvantage when he's involved in an altercation with someone who he cannot "tactically disarm" either via shooting or attacking.

I'm not going to say that the officers aren't to blame for the death, but if the reason for the girl dying is that she was first hurt by a flashbang that had a VERY low chance of landing and STAYING right next to her on a couch, and then an accidental discharge while grandma is running at armed policemen and wrestling with them... That's not what I'd call police brutality, it's what I'd call a confluence of unfortunate circumstances. As far as police using flashbangs in an urban setting, it's as simple as a reaction to increasingly violent offenders who are more than willing to kill a policeman without a second thought.

This isn't the police's fault (from the information provided in the article) any more than the murder suspect who first kills someone in front of a, presumably occupied, store while he's walking with someone else, and then goes and hides in his family's house. Yes, police brutality happens and it's a serious thing, however I really hate the people who just immediately point all the fingers at the police when something bad happens. If there weren't people out there committing horrible acts and harming completely innocent people, do you really think cops would sometimes be this brutal?


#17

No one is saying that this is police brutality, what we're saying is that cops need to learn how to properly do their fucking jobs and correctly identify possible threats.


#18

So far I've seen no indication that the police identified ANYTHING improperly and that this is anything more than two accidents that came together. Show me the future article where someone intentionally shot the girl thinking she was a threat and you can have an apology. Until then, it sounds a lot like an accident due to grandma trying to wrestle an officer and the freak chance of a flashbang incident.


#19

^^wow good post. Not going to be a very popular post though.

Not totally sure on the way of holding a weapon that your talking about because I'm not a cop but I'm sure thats how they do it. Not how I was taught but I wouldn't doubt thats how police are taught to carry their primary weapon upon entering a room.

.greg.


#20

Truth is, neither of us knows exactly what happened. My evidence for the cops misidentifying threats stems from the fact that they shot 7 year old girl. I see your point and I will refrain from further criticism of the cops until all the facts of the case are sorted out.