I can’t find any information about this Menno Henselmans guy other than the picture on his article and that little blurb under the article (both of which are the same as on his website).
I can’t remember who wrote it (Dave Tate maybe) but I once read that you should always take into consideration what an author has either achieved or has helped other people achieve before you listen to them.
…
Jim Wendler’s bullshit detector: Look at people’s hands and shins.
[quote]Vir wrote:
I can’t find any information about this Menno Henselmans guy other than the picture on his article and that little blurb under the article (both of which are the same as on his website).
I can’t remember who wrote it (Dave Tate maybe) but I once read that you should always take into consideration what an author has either achieved or has helped other people achieve before you listen to them.
…[/quote]This is a valid point. I do give him some respect, however, when Bret Contreras and Tim Henriques chime in and give Kudos to the author. I also have not found much background on the author. I am now in the process of reading his references. I have not jumped to a quick decision on this article myself, but the concepts really intrigue me. A part of me wants it to be legit, as it would be a nice template for designing mass building workouts. I just like to keep am open mind. I think those of you who have not read the article, should at least do that. Knowledge is a good thing.
[quote]Dissection wrote:
Jim Wendler’s bullshit detector: Look at people’s hands and shins.[/quote]
Hmm, could see a good picture of either in the article. But is he doesn’t believe the deadlift to be an optimal mass builder it does not matter anyway.
I dont think anybody made this point either.
So, just like any other exercise the deadlift probably add tons of mass to some and not so much to others.
But aside from that, and the fact that deadlifting is just badass in general (IMO), nobody questions that it helps build a great amount of strength and how many times have we read on these threads, and in articles, that if you want to get bigger you have to get stronger. So, even if the deadlift is not optimal for building mass in the small picture it is in the big picture, regardless of your overall goals, a great exercise to program in to your workouts.
Just to tie this all together. The deadlift helps you get stronger. Stronger gets you bigger. So, deadlift to become stronger at the exercises you feel are more “optimal” for gaining mass.
At least thats the way I see it in relevance to this thread.
[quote]landuatj wrote:
So, even if the deadlift is not optimal for building mass in the small picture it is in the big picture, regardless of your overall goals, a great exercise to program in to your workouts. [/quote]
That makes no sense. The goal of BBing is to get stronger in exercises that result in the most growth. If you’re certain that DLs are doing nothing for you (or you can get more out of another lift), then why would you waste your time doing them?
That said, someone new to lifting should do DLs regardless of what they think since they probably have no fucking clue as to what really works for them.
as for all the “fried” CNS comments… there is a difference between being sore, and fried. Just like many cry about “over training”, it’s awfully rare, and your sets/reps will need to be pretty high. i don’t believe you will cook your CNS from a DL session.
I can’t be bothered re-reading the article but I think that he listed his 7 principles, and then talked about application. The principles were pretty self-explanatory and I don’t remember disagreeing with any of them - the problem is in the application. As I recall, he listed isometric exercise as the second best (behind concentric/eccentric) exercise for growth. Let’s not throw the baby out with the bathwater here though. If by deadlifting, we can get a (hopefully) very heavy isometric contraction for the traps, mid back (rhomboids etc), and erector spinae, isn’t that worth something? Especially given the whole “never round your back” thing? If we CHOOSE not to train the erector spinae via flexion/extension/hyperextension of the spine, then isometric work is, according to the author, the second best growth stimulus - I’m sure someone could find a role for deadlifts in there.
Then, of course, aside from all the hormonal arguments etc. etc. are psychological ones (finding deadlifts fun, motivation to go to the gym, etc.)
Finally, it’s pretty functional. Being able to pick something heavy off the ground is probably a skill worth having - what if you need to move a car like Franco?
Best,
Dan
NFN, I did the car move thing at some point in college. Felt like my shoulders were going to detach. I don’t know how he did that shit so easily!
People should deadlift, often and hard. Because i have gotten stronger in the deadlift, i can clean+press, row, front and back squat heavier due to the fact that deadlifting will strengthen everything
[quote]caveman101 wrote:
People should deadlift, often and hard. Because i have gotten stronger in the deadlift, i can clean+press, row, front and back squat heavier due to the fact that deadlifting will strengthen everything.
[/quote]
This.
Mass progression is not linear. At some point strength always becomes the limit. IMO…deadlifting extends any given period prior to reaching this limit. A decade of extended runs leads to more size!
[quote]hastalles wrote:
[quote]Anus Bleach wrote:
[quote]hastalles wrote:
Show me a big deadlifter with a small back and legs.[/quote]
He had a log here a few months ago where you can see that he has rather large legs and a large back (go to the last page):
[/quote]
Damn Straight!
That guys back and legs are well ahead development wise. Take that 700x1 and turn it into 500x8 for three or four sets and all else being equal he will get bigger for sure!
[quote]caveman101 wrote:
People should deadlift, often and hard. Because i have gotten stronger in the deadlift, i can clean+press, row, front and back squat heavier due to the fact that deadlifting will strengthen everything
[/quote]
This x2
This is exactly the correlation I was trying to make in my last post.
This isn’t a short term game. Its a lifetime game. Treat it as such and be aware of the big picture. This is why effort and consistency will beat genetics and potential 99% of the time.
As an interesting aside I just read an article in which Ronnie Coleman kept heavy deadlifts in his routines throughout his competitive days. Jay Cutler, however, has not done them for awhile. Both men are huge. I’m not sure how much you can believe from what is printed, but it does seem like deadlifts are a major part of many of the top guys’ routines. I’m a regular deadlifter, so don’t think I am anti-deadlift by any means. I just would like to hear what fellow lifters think about this.
I’ve noticed better gains from doing heavy rack pulls from right around knee level for back development (re-setting on the pins each rep) and just doing normal back squat, front squat, hack squat and leg press for legs - no deadlifts from the floor. I can obviously do more weight on the rack pulls and I feel the weight being moved by primarily my back as opposed to a full body / posterior chain lift. Legs already get enough heavy work from the other movements I mentioned.
Different strokes different folks and all that…