T Nation

6th Cycle. What Would You Do?


#1

Hey everyone,

been lurking for around 8 years, probably the last 3 of those years have been daily. Never really felt the need to post seeing as how there are some INSANELY brilliant minds in this forum as well as the others (not even counting the authors, who are unreal). Anyways, I was wanting some input, as I have a good amount of gear but unsure which route to take.

Cycle History :
1.
6 weeks Test Prop 400mg/wk

2.
8 weeks Test Enan 500mg/wk

3.
8 weeks Sust 250 750mg/wk
8 weeks EQ 600mg/wk

4.
6 weeks Test Prop 500mg/wk
6 weeks Tren Ace 300mg/wk

5.
8 weeks Test Prop 500mg/wk
6 weeks Tren Ace 350mg/wk
8 weeks Masteron 500mg/wk

All PCT was Nolva 40/40/20/20

Anyways, I have only done shorties as you can see. Due to what was available and in what quantities nothing really was a huge cycle. Coming into my 6th cycle I have accumulated a good amount of gear.

2000mg of Test Prop, 5000mg Test Enan, 5000mg Test Cyp, 8000mg EQ, 3000mg Tren Ace, 1000mg Winny, 1000mg A-Drol, and I can now pretty much get whatever I would like (for a reasonable price too, thank god.)

My question is what would you run, given the info I have provided? I really would love to try a longer cycle, since I never have gone over 8 weeks in my history of use. My diet is dialed in and has been for the past 4 months, my supp regimen is great, blood profile came back in pretty respectable, nothing to worry about...Im excited.

I am 26 years old (coming up to 27 next mo.) pushing 240 at a height of 5'11 and just got hydro tested at the university, came in a few ticks above 9% (first time in a LONG time I have seen single digits, amazing what diet can do alone).

Previously I have always lifted for strength only. Size was a bonus. This cycle I would love to break 250 in weight and stay there, but also lean out and create some separation on my frame. I have come up with 100 different ways to do this cycle but really I am at a loss when it comes to putting together my first longer cycle.

I would really like to get it dialed in perfectly, seeing as how I feel my diet is finally where I can be proud and say that it truly is on point, and everything else is running really strongly right now. I just have a great feeling about this 6th go around and want to get it squared away before I even load up and put anything into my system.

For PCT this go around I have clomid on hand, letro, nolva, arim, HCG, and can get anything else, granted that it isn't too exotic or foreign.

I am really interested to hear what everyone has to say! Thank you guys for reading all this if you did, I know it is my first post and kind of a dick thing to do coming and asking for advice without giving my own over the years, but with the minds in these forums I felt like I couldn't add anything on top of what they were already saying!

Thanks again.


#2

You have more compounds than you need.. for example it is not necessary to have 2x SERM, 2x AI and 3x T esters!

The cycles you have done are absolutely fine, there is no need to change those significantly, the secret (as you seem to have learned) to a great performance and/or physique is the whole package - not the length or dose of the cycle.

I have recently been (using and) thinking about the following as a good body comp cycle.. it will increase muscle significantly even on a restricted diet, and if kept clean as possible and high arse protein you will look very good indeed:

Test Prop 525mg/wk
Tren Ace 525mg/wk
Drol 350mg/wk
HCG 250iu/EOD
AI
SERM PCT

That is ust an example of a cycle i have been thinking about which includes some drugs you have but in all honesty with the drugs you have there are scores of potential cycles possible... but that is not to say you NEED to use them all, and i personally think that would be a waste.

You will find that there is little benefit to be had from a 12 week cycle that you cannot get from a 6 week cycle - IME at least. They have their place but only in certain situations IMO.

If you want to maximise your cycle frontload the drugs. Also if you want to do a longer run you could try a format like the following:

Wk1-6 Drug X
Wk1-6 Drug Y
2 weeks 'off' (bridged)
Wk1-6 Drug X
Wk1-6 Drug Z

This way you can plan for 14 weeks of inhibition but you get the full benefit of two seperate cycles - using different compounds too which can be used to achive a modulated goal over the time frame (ie. size then strength with a 2 week deload).

JJ


#3

Awesome, thank you. I just listed everything I had on hand so people's minds could get to racing. Would you recommend a front load of prop if I decided to go with enan? Or just front load the enan? That's one thing I have never done and was wanting to try out also, frontloading.

It is true also what you said about cycle length, I have noticed excellent results from my shorter cycles and achieved everything I had wanted, I was just really curious as to the benefits of running a longer cycle. What sparked the idea was me thinking back to my EQ run and what would have happened had I carried it out to the 12 weeks like most people recommend. Even though I saw great gains in the 8 weeks I did I guess there is always that question in the back of the mind 'well what if...?'.

I appreciate your input brook, I may do your 6, bridge, 6 protocol. How would you use the EQ in something like this though? I like the idea that each separate block has it's own unique goals, that way I can still train for purely strength gains as I have been in the past for at least one of those blocks, then probably the second 6 week really focus on dieting down and bringing out all the separation I can.

I will be training with a pretty well respected showtime coach where I live, my first time ever being working with someone outside of the strongman circle. Really excited to see what he has in store for me, as well as what you think about the front loading and EQ!

Thanks again Brook, means a lot to me!


#4

Awesome, thank you. I just listed everything I had on hand so people's minds could get to racing. Would you recommend a front load of prop if I decided to go with enan? Or just front load the enan? That's one thing I have never done and was wanting to try out also, frontloading.

It is true also what you said about cycle length, I have noticed excellent results from my shorter cycles and achieved everything I had wanted, I was just really curious as to the benefits of running a longer cycle. What sparked the idea was me thinking back to my EQ run and what would have happened had I carried it out to the 12 weeks like most people recommend. Even though I saw great gains in the 8 weeks I did I guess there is always that question in the back of the mind 'well what if...?'.

I appreciate your input brook, I may do your 6, bridge, 6 protocol. How would you use the EQ in something like this though? I like the idea that each separate block has it's own unique goals, that way I can still train for purely strength gains as I have been in the past for at least one of those blocks, then probably the second 6 week really focus on dieting down and bringing out all the separation I can.

I will be training with a pretty well respected showtime coach where I live, my first time ever being working with someone outside of the strongman circle. Really excited to see what he has in store for me, as well as what you think about the front loading and EQ!

Thanks again Brook, means a lot to me!


#5

There is no reason not to use Prop to frontload Enanth, but there is no reason to either.. and considering that Prop would require a frontload all of it's own - it defeats the purpose of using it for that reason.

Eq is fine over a shorter duration (under 12 weeks - as you learnt), but again frontloading will maximise the results and allow shorter runs (on suggestion from BR and having done so on a number of occasions, 4 weeks on a frontloaded long ester is very effective).

The misconception is that until a drug reaches peak doses you don't gain (as well as you can). This is not necessarily the case.
With a drug like Boldenone Undecanoate, (without checking but from memory OF checking) while it takes around 8 weeks to achieve peak levels, there is not that much of a difference in one's blood levels between week 3 and week 8.


#6

Awesome...like I said I really enjoyed the shorter cycles but couldn't get the idea that I was missing something by not trying a longer one. I love your suggestion of the 6 bridge 6. What would you use for the bridge?

Thinking of doing :

wk 1 - 6 : Test Enan 750mg/wk, front load in first week (1500mg front load? Or would it be 2250mg?)
wk 1 - 6 : EQ 800mg/wk, front load in first week

*Figured I would try out 800mg a week of EQ, I was happy with 600mg and eager to see if that jump is significant. I can't imagine it being too great, but hopefully I am wrong. Also, 750mg of sust seemed to be my sweet spot when I used it, so I figured I would give the test enan a try at that dose.

wk 7 - 8 : Bridge (based off what you recommend)

wk 9 - 13 : Test Prop 700mg/wk, curious about this one though, maybe only 500mg/wk?
wk 9 - 13 : Winny 50mg ED
wk 9 - 13 : Tren Ace 400mg/wk, reasoning is simply that I have gone up 50mg each time I have used. Really no sides from it, I LOVE tren ace, only thing I noticed were a few bad nights of rest.

So for the first 6 weeks I just want to gain, get over that 250lb area (EQ makes me eat like crazy). And really get into the swing of my new training. The 2 week bridge will be per your recommendation, based upon the rest of the cycle I have laid out. The last 5 weeks I will be in a slight caloric deficit, and will also be running winny for the first time. Would you recommend injectable or oral, based on what I have laid out?

Also if you see any tweaks in the mg's a week I would love to hear that as well. I will be training to 'shape' my physique (I know, terrible word selection, but that is the best way I can describe it) 4 or 5 days a week, based on what week we are in, and once a week training with my state strong man team. So at least I won't be completely away from my tires, kegs, yolks...it should keep my state of mind at ease.

Brook, can't thank you enough for your input. I'm eager to see what you have to say about this!


#7

Generally nothing or at most around 100-200mg of exogenous androgens.

Thinking of doing :

wk 1 - 6 : Test Enan 750mg/wk, front load in first week (1500mg front load? Or would it be 2250mg?)
wk 1 - 6 : EQ 800mg/wk, front load in first week[/quote]

If you use a long ester here you will find that you have no recovery ability during your two week break.

Well, you aren't but i understand the urge to see for yourself.

~700mg of Test is a sweet spot for most it seems, significantly better than 500mg and not as side effect-y as 1000mg i find.

The point is time for the AR and the body as a whole to have time off from high dose androgens.

There is a general misconception that the dose of cycle needs to be increased each time you use, like training progression.
This is most certainly NOT the case, and if it were i would easily be on 4g a week now.. whereas i still frequently use 1 to 1.5g perfectly effectively.

Either

Sorry, i try to avoid deep and thorough involvement of cycles in forums these days, but it looks ok generally.

FWIW - I don't see a problem in the term shaping a physique - that is what we do as my shape is quite a far cry from the guy off the street's shape.

:wink:


#8

Awesome Brook. Awesome awesome awesome.

Like I said before I can't thank you enough, I should be starting this within 2 weeks it looks like.

again, thank you!