T Nation

60 Minutes, Duke Lacrosse

What a crock of shit. Someone should beat the D.A. over the head with a lacrosse stick.

Anyone else see this ?

I missed it, but I went and read the transcript (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/10/11/60minutes/main2082140.shtml) after I read your post.

I’ve always said that prosecutorial misconduct resulting in wrongful conviction should be punishable by prison or even death. That might help to keep assholes like this Nifong from trying to make political points at the expense of an innocent person’s life.

[quote]tme wrote:
I missed it, but I went and read the transcript (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/10/11/60minutes/main2082140.shtml) after I read your post.

I’ve always said that prosecutorial misconduct resulting in wrongful conviction should be punishable by prison or even death. That might help to keep assholes like this Nifong from trying to make political points at the expense of an innocent person’s life.

[/quote]

unreal. these guys had a party. got drunk and made a few comments to a couple of strippers. ever been in a room full of guys at a bachelor party when something like this is going on? you hear all kinds of stuff. jokes. whatever. never seen anything like a rape go down. in any event, someone will go down for this because that’s what has to happen to save this prosecutor and preserve the peace at duke. if they get off, all hell’s gonna break loose because this guy has set race-relations back about 50 years there.

[quote]Hack Wilson wrote:
tme wrote:
I missed it, but I went and read the transcript (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/10/11/60minutes/main2082140.shtml) after I read your post.

I’ve always said that prosecutorial misconduct resulting in wrongful conviction should be punishable by prison or even death. That might help to keep assholes like this Nifong from trying to make political points at the expense of an innocent person’s life.

unreal. these guys had a party. got drunk and made a few comments to a couple of strippers. ever been in a room full of guys at a bachelor party when something like this is going on? you hear all kinds of stuff. jokes. whatever. never seen anything like a rape go down. in any event, someone will go down for this because that’s what has to happen to save this prosecutor and preserve the peace at duke. if they get off, all hell’s gonna break loose because this guy has set race-relations back about 50 years there.
[/quote]

I have never been in room where strippers were subject to any kind of verbal or physical abuse.

I don’t know what you and your friends do but me and my friends would never say anything to piss off the strippers.

That is a good way to ruin a perfectly good party when the strippers leave as a result of being humiliated.

[quote]Marmadogg wrote:
Hack Wilson wrote:
tme wrote:
I missed it, but I went and read the transcript (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/10/11/60minutes/main2082140.shtml) after I read your post.

I’ve always said that prosecutorial misconduct resulting in wrongful conviction should be punishable by prison or even death. That might help to keep assholes like this Nifong from trying to make political points at the expense of an innocent person’s life.

unreal. these guys had a party. got drunk and made a few comments to a couple of strippers. ever been in a room full of guys at a bachelor party when something like this is going on? you hear all kinds of stuff. jokes. whatever. never seen anything like a rape go down. in any event, someone will go down for this because that’s what has to happen to save this prosecutor and preserve the peace at duke. if they get off, all hell’s gonna break loose because this guy has set race-relations back about 50 years there.

I have never been in room where strippers were subject to any kind of verbal or physical abuse.

I don’t know what you and your friends do but me and my friends would never say anything to piss off the strippers.

That is a good way to ruin a perfectly good party when the strippers leave as a result of being humiliated.[/quote]

you look to turn anything into an arguement, huh? if you and your buddies all sit there in silence saying, ‘yes, ma’am!’ as the strippes do their thing, good for you. but we are talking about a bunch of college kids who have been drinking.

i’m pretty sure there was a lot of sarcasm and more than few dirty jokes being made. maybe if you had strippers at your parties instead of the ladies from the rotary club you and your unic friends might have a stronger reaction.

in any event, my point was…ah…fuck it.

[quote]Hack Wilson wrote:
Marmadogg wrote:
Hack Wilson wrote:
tme wrote:
I missed it, but I went and read the transcript (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/10/11/60minutes/main2082140.shtml) after I read your post.

I’ve always said that prosecutorial misconduct resulting in wrongful conviction should be punishable by prison or even death. That might help to keep assholes like this Nifong from trying to make political points at the expense of an innocent person’s life.

unreal. these guys had a party. got drunk and made a few comments to a couple of strippers. ever been in a room full of guys at a bachelor party when something like this is going on? you hear all kinds of stuff. jokes. whatever. never seen anything like a rape go down. in any event, someone will go down for this because that’s what has to happen to save this prosecutor and preserve the peace at duke. if they get off, all hell’s gonna break loose because this guy has set race-relations back about 50 years there.

I have never been in room where strippers were subject to any kind of verbal or physical abuse.

I don’t know what you and your friends do but me and my friends would never say anything to piss off the strippers.

That is a good way to ruin a perfectly good party when the strippers leave as a result of being humiliated.

you look to turn anything into an arguement, huh? if you and your buddies all sit there in silence saying, ‘yes, ma’am!’ as the strippes do their thing, good for you. but we are talking about a bunch of college kids who have been drinking.

i’m pretty sure there was a lot of sarcasm and more than few dirty jokes being made. maybe if you had strippers at your parties instead of the ladies from the rotary club you and your unic friends might have a stronger reaction.

in any event, my point was…ah…fuck it.[/quote]

Most of the Duke lax team is a bunch of spoiled rich assholes. It is possible they did not treat these strippers nicely.

That said, I think the prosecutor is wrong.

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Hack Wilson wrote:
Marmadogg wrote:
Hack Wilson wrote:
tme wrote:
I missed it, but I went and read the transcript (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/10/11/60minutes/main2082140.shtml) after I read your post.

I’ve always said that prosecutorial misconduct resulting in wrongful conviction should be punishable by prison or even death. That might help to keep assholes like this Nifong from trying to make political points at the expense of an innocent person’s life.

unreal. these guys had a party. got drunk and made a few comments to a couple of strippers. ever been in a room full of guys at a bachelor party when something like this is going on? you hear all kinds of stuff. jokes. whatever. never seen anything like a rape go down. in any event, someone will go down for this because that’s what has to happen to save this prosecutor and preserve the peace at duke. if they get off, all hell’s gonna break loose because this guy has set race-relations back about 50 years there.

I have never been in room where strippers were subject to any kind of verbal or physical abuse.

I don’t know what you and your friends do but me and my friends would never say anything to piss off the strippers.

That is a good way to ruin a perfectly good party when the strippers leave as a result of being humiliated.

you look to turn anything into an arguement, huh? if you and your buddies all sit there in silence saying, ‘yes, ma’am!’ as the strippes do their thing, good for you. but we are talking about a bunch of college kids who have been drinking.

i’m pretty sure there was a lot of sarcasm and more than few dirty jokes being made. maybe if you had strippers at your parties instead of the ladies from the rotary club you and your unic friends might have a stronger reaction.

in any event, my point was…ah…fuck it.

Most of the Duke lax team is a bunch of spoiled rich assholes. It is possible they did not treat these strippers nicely.

That said, I think the prosecutor is wrong.[/quote]

that was essentially my point. they aren’t angels and i doubt that their behavior was ‘emily post’. that said, i don’t think it’s fair to call them spoiled rich assholes because their parents have been successul and can afford a good school.

The poor parents…having to spend thousands on attorney fees, all because of political correctness and an ambitious prosecutor. Shameful!

[quote]Hack Wilson wrote:

that was essentially my point. they aren’t angels and i doubt that their behavior was ‘emily post’. that said, i don’t think it’s fair to call them spoiled rich assholes because their parents have been successul and can afford a good school.
[/quote]

I agreed with your point. Spoiled rich kids tend to act much worse in these situations than the average kid that is just happy to be there.

They are not spoiled rich assholes because their parents are successful. They are spoiled rich assholes because their parents are successful AND they spoiled their children with too much money and not enough time.

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
The poor parents…having to spend thousands on attorney fees, all because of political correctness and an ambitious prosecutor. Shameful![/quote]

Poor kids also, while they surely aren’t angels at least one of them claims to not have even been there when it happened. This is the kind of thing that could literally ruin these kids lives. Just think if it goes to trial and they get some sort of jury nullification and are convicted. You would have to put a suicide watch out on those kids.

The line-up that the DA gave the accuser was probably the worst thing on the show, it included only white players that had been at the party. It was impossible for to make a mistake she could have picked three random people. Also the fact that neither the DA nor the Police have interviewed at least one of the students CHARGED WITH RAPE is crazy.

I liked the objectivity of the law professor that investigated the prosecutor’s behavior, I hope he gets called as an expert witness in that guys disbarrment hearing.

[quote]PGreen711 wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
The poor parents…having to spend thousands on attorney fees, all because of political correctness and an ambitious prosecutor. Shameful!

Poor kids also, while they surely aren’t angels at least one of them claims to not have even been there when it happened. This is the kind of thing that could literally ruin these kids lives. Just think if it goes to trial and they get some sort of jury nullification and are convicted. You would have to put a suicide watch out on those kids.
[/quote]

You cannot convict someone with jury nullification only set them free.

If a jury declared someone guilty because of a non-existent law the judge would overrule that verdict.

I hope I got that right, but that is one reason I think Jury nullifcation is such a great instrument.

[quote]orion wrote:
If a jury declared someone guilty because of a non-existent law the judge would overrule that verdict.
[/quote]

If these were three black boys and a white stripper in Mississippi, I would not bank on it.

It might get overturned on appeal… but don’t put all your hopes on the trial judge.

[quote]nephorm wrote:
orion wrote:
If a jury declared someone guilty because of a non-existent law the judge would overrule that verdict.

If these were three black boys and a white stripper in Mississippi, I would not bank on it.

It might get overturned on appeal… but don’t put all your hopes on the trial judge.[/quote]

I agree, when a jury nullifies they aren’t really basing their decision on a “non existent law” a better way to put it is that they are essentially basing their decision on their opinions rather than the law. There is no real way to tell when a jury has nullified because they will pretty much always say they followed the instructions given to them by the judge.

I agree also that you would have to look for the conviction to get over-turned on the appeal, a trial judge has a harder time second guessing a jury’s verdict, I mean if the jury says guilty beyond a reasonable doubt the judge will have a hard time just saying no they weren’t.

Well it seems that the case Nifong brought is going down the tubes.

Rape charges dropped. NC Bar filed a complaint against the DA that may include him being disbarred.

Any thoughts on the recent developments?

Here’s an article on the charges against Nifong and a summary of the case so far. I would assume that the NC Supreme Court will hear the charges from the BAR and determine the punishment, is that right?

I think he should face criminal charges as well. His office didn’t interview the accuser for months, even after filing charges? WTF???

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16382357/

RALEIGH, N.C. - Nine months after the Duke lacrosse scandal broke, the prosecutor is now the accused.

The North Carolina bar filed ethics charges Thursday against District Attorney Mike Nifong, accusing him of saying misleading and inflammatory things to the media about the athletes under suspicion when the case first unfolded last spring.

The punishment for ethics violations can range from admonishment to disbarment. The complaint could also force Nifong off the case by creating a conflict of interest.

“He’s got this hanging over his head,” said Thomas Metzloff, a Duke law professor and member of the bar?s ethics committee for the past 10 years. “It relates so much to his underlying conduct in the case.”

Among the four rules of professional conduct that Nifong was accused of violating was a prohibition against making comments “that have a substantial likelihood of heightening public condemnation of the accused.”

In a statement, the bar said it opened a case against Nifong on March 30, a little more than two weeks after a 28-year-old woman hired to perform as a stripper at a lacrosse team party said she was gang-raped.

The ethics allegations come as legal experts on both sides of the criminal bar have warned that the case against the three athletes is pitifully weak.

The ethics charges will be heard by an independent body called the Disciplinary Hearing Commission, made up of both lawyers and non-lawyers. A date for the hearing has not been set.

Flaws in Duke case
Dec. 26: Former prosecutor Bill Fallon and former defense attorney Bill Aronwald argue about whether all charges will be dropped against the Duke lacrosse players.

A Nifong assistant told reporters waiting outside his office Friday that he would not comment on the case. But in an October interview with The Associated Press, he said his only regret in handling the case was speaking so often to the media early in the investigation.

“Certainly what I was trying to do was to reassure the community, to encourage people with information to come forward,” Nifong said. “And that was clearly not the effect.”

The bar cited 41 quotations and eight paraphrased statements made to newspaper and TV reporters, saying many of them amounted to ‘improper commentary about the character, credibility and reputation of the accused’ or their alleged unwillingness to cooperate. Most of the comments were in March and April.

Among them:

* Nifong referred to the lacrosse players as "a bunch of hooligans."
* He declared: "I am convinced there was a rape, yes, sir."
* He told ESPN: "One would wonder why one needs an attorney if one was not charged and had not done anything wrong."
* He told The New York Times: "I'm disappointed that no one has been enough of a man to come forward. And if they would have spoken up at the time, this may never have happened."

Nifong was also charged with breaking a rule against “dishonesty, fraud, deceit and misrepresentation.” The bar said that when DNA testing failed to find any evidence a lacrosse player raped the accuser, Nifong told a reporter the players might have used a condom.

Last week, Nifong dropped the rape charges against the athletes after the stripper wavered in her story, saying she was no longer certain she was penetrated vaginally with a penis, as she had claimed several times before. The men still face charges of kidnapping and sexual offense.

In recent months - and especially after last week - legal experts and even Nifong’s own colleagues have warned openly that the case appears pathetically weak.

“One wonders what the effect of this will be,” Stan Goldman, who teaches criminal law at Loyola Law School in Los Angeles, said after the ethics charges were filed. “Is this going to result in him treating the case more gingerly and deciding it’s not worth pursuing, or is he going to get his back up and decide he’s got to pursue this case to the end regardless?”

The athletes, Reade Seligmann, Collin Finnerty and David Evans, have maintained their innocence and called the charges “fantastic lies.” The case is not expected to go to trial until at least the spring.

The weaknesses in the case include the lack of DNA evidence; the accuser’s ever-shifting story; one player’s claim to have an alibi supported by receipts and time-stamped photos; and the defense’s insistence that the photo lineup that was used to identify the defendants violated police procedures and was skewed against the men.

Before the ethics charges were filed, Bob Brown, an attorney in private practice who once worked with Nifong in the prosecutor’s office, predicted the case would be a “bloodbath” for the prosecution if it went to trial.

Among other questions raised in recent weeks: Why did it take months for anyone from Nifong’s office to interview the accuser? And why did Nifong initially withhold from the defense DNA test results that found genetic material from several men - none of them Duke lacrosse players - on the accuser’s underwear and body?

“I don’t see how any member of the public can have confidence in this case. I think it’s making a mockery of our criminal justice system to permit this guy to keep fumbling along,” Duke University law professor James Coleman, one of Nifong’s leading critics, said before the ethics charges were filed. “It?s either total incompetence or it?s misconduct on a scale that is extraordinary.”

Two sexes/races…
two vastly different standards of justice.

Should my fellow white males and I start picking cotton now?


[quote]Marmadogg wrote:
Hack Wilson wrote:
tme wrote:
I missed it, but I went and read the transcript (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/10/11/60minutes/main2082140.shtml) after I read your post.

I’ve always said that prosecutorial misconduct resulting in wrongful conviction should be punishable by prison or even death. That might help to keep assholes like this Nifong from trying to make political points at the expense of an innocent person’s life.

unreal. these guys had a party. got drunk and made a few comments to a couple of strippers. ever been in a room full of guys at a bachelor party when something like this is going on? you hear all kinds of stuff. jokes. whatever. never seen anything like a rape go down. in any event, someone will go down for this because that’s what has to happen to save this prosecutor and preserve the peace at duke. if they get off, all hell’s gonna break loose because this guy has set race-relations back about 50 years there.

I have never been in room where strippers were subject to any kind of verbal or physical abuse.

I don’t know what you and your friends do but me and my friends would never say anything to piss off the strippers.

That is a good way to ruin a perfectly good party when the strippers leave as a result of being humiliated.[/quote]

Then you’ve never been to the parties I’ve had to work at. I worked as a driver for dancers and security, I had a party where a guy who had been drinking poured a beer on a dancer’s ass, needless to say the party was over. I’ve also worked a party where everything was cool, but those where generally few and far.
On a side not money or lack of doesn’t mean that guys are going to be dicks