T Nation

6 Months on HCG Mono


#1

Been on HCG mono for about 6 months now. Still fatigued, moody, and carrying extra belly fat. My drive and mood has declined a bit more in my opinion. Made some nice gains in the gym but that’s really my only positive.

Protocol - HCG 1000iu 3x week
Other supplement - Omega 3’s, pre Kaged, post Jym, 2-3 proteins shakes per day.
Gym 5-7 days per week 1 - 1.5 hours per visit. Weights and minor cardio.

Total Test- 908 (250-1100ng/dL) was 285 before HCG
Free Test- 181.6 (35-155 pg/ml) was 45
E2 ultrasensitive- 55 (<29 pg/ml) never checked
SHBG- 32 (10-50 nmol/L)
DHEA-S- 114 (106-464 mcg/dL)
Vit D, 25-OH 32 (30-100 ng/ml)
TSH- 1.97 (0.4-4.5 mlU/L) was 2.33 on Feb 1, 2018
T4 Total- 7.9 (4.5-12 mcg/dL) was 7.4
T4 Free- 1.0 (.8-1.8 ng/dL)
T3 Total- 107 (76-181 ng/dL)
T3 Free- 3.3 (2.3-4.2 pg/mL)
RT3- 17 (8-25 ng/dL) Tested Feb 1, 2018
Hematocrit- 47.1
Hemoglobin- 15.8
Iron- 126 (50-180 mcg/dL)
Ferritin- 62 (20-380 ng/mL)
Vit B12- 432 (200-1100 pg/mL)
Folate Serum- 8.9 ng/mL
PSA- 0.7

I sleep about 7 hours a night. Don’t always feel rested. No sleep apnea. Been checked twice. I sweat like I’m in an oven. It was bad before HCG, just the same, if not a little worse now. It really kicked in when I hit 30 and it has gotten slightly worse every year for the past 10 years. Ive read that head-sweating can be caused by low Vit D. It looks like I’m at the low end of the scale. Could that be the culprit? Also looks like I’m on the lower end of a few other things.

Thought… opinion… greatly appreciated. Thanks for the continued help.


#2

Your mood and drive has declined because estrogen is too high, I was rather fatigue with a Total T of 1000 ng/dL and high estrogen. High estrogen force you to hold onto water which is why your sweating. You require an AI, is your doctor that clueless?

You do realize anything past 500iu at a time mean it turns into estrogen?


#3

I highly doubt that my doctor is clueless. This is the first time E2 has shown to be this high and I have yet to talk to the doctor about these numbers. I like to get input from others going through the same thing before speaking with the doctor.

As far as hcg dose, if anything over 500ui per day is “bad”, would I be able to maintain my T levels using 350-500ui per day without the potential to raise E2? I’m not opposed to taking a shot everyday if it could be beneficial.

How do thyroid, dhea, and the other stuff look? Looks like I’m barely above water on Vit D and DHEA.

Again, thanks in advance!


#4

Hebejebe - see if you can find my thread about 30/40 down re: transitioning from HCG Mono to KSMAN’s TRT protocol. I had a very similar experience with HCG Mono and E2, even with an ever increasing dosage of an AI. KSMAN had some really helpful thoughts in that thread. My experience, and only my experience, was that once E2 started running away on HCG mono it never stopped. Transitioning now with TRT and still trying to get it dialed in so I can’t say as though I’ve got your final answer, but I think the thoughts in that post might be helpful to you. Good luck!


#5

No more than 500iu per injection because anything past 500iu turns into estrogen as you have found out even for someone who clears out estrogen well. Most men would have insane estrogen levels by now.


#6

Find 5,000iu Vit-D3 tiny oil based gel caps. Take one per day, take 5 [25,000] for first 5 days.

Take 25mg DHEA

Take DHEA and Vit-D3 with low fiber foods. Not with oat meal or Cheerio’s. Ditto fish oil/

TSH is high, should be nearer to 1.0
fT4 is below mid-range
Are you using iodized salt or iodine deficient?
fT3 should support good body temperatures. Please post two sets of oral body temperatures - see below.

Ferritin is a bit low. Do you eat red meat?
Do you have digestive issues?
Use antacids for heart burn?
Do you get leg or foot cramps or can tense a muscle and make it lock up? That would be magnesium deficiency, see ZMA in this site’s Biotest store.

E2 is high. Probably as expected from high dose hCG that creates a lot of T–>E2 inside the testes. In that case, anastrozole will not help at expected doses or high doses as it is ineffective inside the testes.


Please read the stickies found here: About the T Replacement Category

  • advice for new guys - need more info about you
  • things that damage your hormones
  • protocol for injections
  • finding a TRT doc

Evaluate your overall thyroid function by checking oral body temperatures as per the thyroid basics sticky. Thyroid hormone fT3 is what gets the job done and it regulates mitochondrial activity, the source of ATP which is the universal currency of cellular energy. This is part of the body’s temperature control loop. This can get messed up if you are iodine deficient. In many countries, you need to be using iodized salt. Other countries add iodine to dairy or bread.

KSman is simply a regular member on this site. Nothing more other than highly active.

I can be a bit abrupt in my replies and recommendations. I have a lot of ground to cover as this forum has become much more active in the last two years. I can’t follow threads that go deep over time. You need to respond to all of my points and requests as soon as possible before you fall off of my radar. The worse problems are guys who ignore issues re thyroid, body temperatures, history of iodized salt. Please do not piss people off saying that lab results are normal, we need lab number and ranges.

The value that you get out of this process and forum depends on your effort and performance. The bulk of your learning is reading/studying the suggested stickies.


#7

Thanks for the reply. I will address all your points one-by-one.

Vit D- I take 5000iu per day. Have jumped up to 15k the past 2 days. Will switch to taking in the evenings based on some other information I’ve read.

I will add DHEA. What will this do for me and how soon should I see changes?

TSH is normally 2.3-ish. I went back to iodized (Mortons) salt after reading your thyroid write-ups a year or so ago. I tried taking iodoral and noticed more sweating and higher TSH. I have tested temps in the past at your recommendation and they’re normally low. The past 2 days I’ve taken temps with 2 different thermometers.

Upon waking- 97.1 and 96.7
Lunch- 97.7 and 97.8
Evening- 97.7 and 97.5

Never hit 98.6 and even with low body temps, I feel warm/hot. Add in some direct sunlight, humidity, stale (non-moving) air and the sweat glands start working overtime. Even at low ambient temps. I started taking Glyccopyralate (for sweating) two weeks ago and still sweat like a mother…

I eat red meat twice a week, on average. I eat a lot of chicken and occasional lean pork. Should I look to supplement ferritin?

Digestive problems… Lactose intolerant to a degree. I drink 2-4 protein shakes per day and do OK. Too much ice cream or a bowl or two of cereal cause a little more disruption. Excessive amounts of red meat (usually greasier servings) can cause some major disruption. Normally though, I’m probably more constipated than regular.

For a short time, years ago, I used Nexium for short time when I was having some reflux. I only take antacids as needed, which is maybe once a week.

I get stiffness in a calf (usually the right side) after sitting, more so when legs are off the floor or propped up. I have been taking ZMA (1 pill 3 times a day) Since Sunday. Taking it all at once will cause major stomach disruption.

I also talk a multivitamin that’s loaded with B vitamins. I notice that my pee looks like antifreeze an hour after taking it. Is there any chance my body is not absorbing these vitamins?

I understand my HCG dose is higher than you’d recommend. My doctor seems very open to treatment but seems very reluctant to prescribe test since the hcg is working. Started taking an OTC DIM today. I’ll give it a week and see how I feel.

Ive made some nice gains in the gym but still have a gut. Ive been working on diet for the past year trying to adjust and balance macros. Ive tried reducing calories, increasing calories, cutting out certain foods, etc… but cant lose the fat and bloat around my mid section. I sleep a good 7 hours a night but always wake up feeling like I’m still sleeping. By 9 am I’m ready to go back to sleep. After lunch, I want a nap. I get home from work, struggle to get dinner together because I want to lay on the couch and take a nap. I get my 2nd or 3rd wind around 7 pm.

I know that was an awful lot of info. Thanks for taking the time to help out.