Typically i do a 12 week cycle and use nolva only at 20-40mg post cycle for recovery which has been fine up untill this last cycle which seems to be a bit harder to recover from (Was 1g test/400 tren for 12 weeks cycle). For a 6 month cycle is nolva only for recovery out of the question? Reason ive been scared to use HCG is ignorance for the most part with worrying about frying my leydig cells and never recovering at all but i know with adequette research that's unlikely.
How does this look for a big mass cycle:
Weeks 1-20 750mg test Weeks 1-10 500mg deca Weeks 11-20 400mg tren enth Weeks 1-8 50mg anadrol Weeks 16-24 50mg anadrol Week 21 100mg test prop ed Week 22 150mg test prop eod Week 23 100mg test prop eod Week 24 50mg test prop eod
Im 6ft 4, 244lbs at about 16% bodyfat
by the time of the cycle ill probably be a leaner 230-235lbs and will be after (doing cycle after 6 months of accutane)
not a heavy drinker so not worried about liver and liver disease doesnt run in family although heart disease does... but i try and combat that with 6 fish oil tabs daily.
Where can we really draw the line with cycle length? Is 20 really that different from 14 or 12? I know around here it is considered that 8 is easier to recover from but after that point do you really get more shut down?
Anyway, assuming the point I was perhaps-somewhat-obliquely trying to make above may not have gotten across to the OP:
Why would you figure that at say the 1 year point, your physique will be better off after:
July, Aug, Sep, Oct, Nov, Dec -- "on" Jan, Feb, Mar, Apr, May, Jun -- "off"
than it would be after:
July, Aug -- "on" Sep, Oct -- "off" Nov, Dec -- "on" Jan, Feb -- "off" Mar, Apr -- "on" May, Jun -- "off"
Or considering longer term than that -- why would you think that most weeks of the year -- if even half of them -- you will have a better physique on repeated 6 months on, 6 months off than repeated 8 weeks on, 8 weeks off, using the same total dose of steroids per year and being "on" the same percentage of the time?
wow, that was a very constructive post from BR and you obviously didn't get his point or you just are pissed he didn't high five you for your cycle plan.
I have done a 6 month cycle and the results were ok but recovery was not very good and took a long time. I lost a lot of my gains in the 6 months off that followed and I gained a lot of fat that I had lost during the cycle. I think if you are gonna do a 6 month cycle you might as well stay on for 9 months of the year and just spend long enough off to clear out your system (3 months) or just blast and cruise continuously.
First please ignore some of the posters that don't contribute but use these forums to boost their self esteem by bashing others.
Second, listen to Bill. Want the best result with the least sides the quickest? 8-10 weeks on. You need to look at studies that reveal what happens after 8 weeks. example:
Measurement of myostatin concentrations in human serum: Circulating concentrations in young and older men and effects of testosterone administration.
Lakshman KM, Bhasin S, Corcoran C, Collins-Racie LA, Tchistiakova L, Forlow SB, St Ledger K, Burczynski ME, Dorner AJ, Lavallie ER. Section of Endocrinology, Diabetes, and Nutrition, Boston University School of Medicine, Boston Medical Center, 670 Albany Street, Boston, MA 02118, United States. Methodological problems, including binding of myostatin to plasma proteins and cross-reactivity of assay reagents with other proteins, have confounded myostatin measurements. Here we describe development of an accurate assay for measuring myostatin concentrations in humans. Monoclonal antibodies that bind to distinct regions of myostatin served as capture and detector antibodies in a sandwich ELISA that used acid treatment to dissociate myostatin from binding proteins. Serum from myostatin-deficient Belgian Blue cattle was used as matrix and recombinant human myostatin as standard. The quantitative range was 0.15-37.50 ng/mL. Intra- and inter-assay CVs in low, mid, and high range were 4.1%, 4.7%, and 7.2%, and 3.9%, 1.6%, and 5.2%, respectively. Myostatin protein was undetectable in sera of Belgian Blue cattle and myostatin knockout mice. Recovery in spiked sera approximated 100%. ActRIIB-Fc or anti-myostatin antibody MYO-029 had no effect on myostatin measurements when assayed at pH 2.5. Myostatin levels were higher in young than older men (mean+/-S.E.M. 8.0+/-0.3 ng/mL vs. 7.0+/-0.4 ng/mL, P=0.03). In men treated with graded doses of testosterone, myostatin levels were significantly higher on day 56 than baseline in both young and older men; changes in myostatin levels were significantly correlated with changes in total and free testosterone in young men. Myostatin levels were not significantly associated with lean body mass in either young or older men. CONCLUSION: Myostatin ELISA has the characteristics of a valid assay: nearly 100% recovery, excellent precision, accuracy, and sufficient sensitivity to enable measurement of myostatin concentrations in men and women. PMID: 19356623 [PubMed - in process]
In addition, only if your competing would I ever recommend 6 months on 6 off - not because it's risky per say but the timing sucks. I would recommend on all the time moderate dose WAY before 6 on 6 off - but even before that 8-10 weeks on.
Have to go against the grain here. Experiment and see what works for you. Some people don't show gains till week 6 or so of their cycles. What's the point of quitting 2 weeks later? Some people show gains very quickly and the effectiveness of their AS wears off quickly unless they stop the cycle or completely change compounds.
Professional BB are on all the time and their gains don't stop they keep growing.
I don;t want to be controversial but recovery is also very individual. I know guys who don't even get shut down on 2-300 mg of test per week. One even fathered a son after being on for 6 months straight and 2 months off. So his recovery was quick and complete.
Recovery is very individual. Some do better with short heavy cycles and others whose bodies may respond more slowly CAN run longer cycles but should be careful to choose their compounds carefully as some may shut you down harder then others. Again an individual thing.
IMO Deca, tren and anadrol means a long recovery for alot of people but for alot it's not. So im not one to paint with broad strokes. See what works for you and learn how your body works and what it likes.
Sometimes ur going to get good information that isn't sugar coated.
Regardless it is "GOOD INFO".
The more u learn the more respect u will be given.
Bill Roberts is one of the most knowledgable guys on this forum.His word is gold and he took the time to help u out.
I would listen and be thankfull.
I was a believer in 12 week cycles and will be doing 8 wees from now on.Sometimes we think we were given good advice but we are lucky to find out what "REALLY" is good advice.
In a world of dealing with steroids where f@#wking up in a bad way could mess up ur health for a while or worse life it is best to become as well educated on the subject as possible.
I used to hate the line "U shouldn't use AAS ur not ready".Looking back now it pissed me off but it was very good advice.Talking to different guys who are doing AAS at the gym and at work it scares me to think they are doing AAS with there knowledge.They don't know what an AI or serm is.Scarry.That was me thouogh.
I have learned alot and still have alot to learn.I'm still going to get roasted on some of the questions to ask but I check the ego at the door and enjoy the answers I receive even if they are harsh.