T Nation

5x5 Without Deadlifts


#1

Is there any easy modification I could do to the 5x5 routine so that I would not be doing deadlifts? Please do not write here about the importance or value of deadlifts. I am simply asking for a way to modify the program as to not need to do deadlifts. Thanks


#2

Can you do a more friendly variation of the deadlift?

For the record, I have tried what you want to do and in the long run it does not work out. To have a complete strength routine you really need to incorporate a deadlifting-like movement.


#3

Power cleans?

Like Bill Starr, Strongest Shall Survive style? Bench/Clean/Squat.


#4

Goals?


#5

hmmm, it’s a thinker for sure. How best to modify a program so as to not include deadlifts.

Hmmm. Have you tried not deadlifting?


#6

[quote]Yogi wrote:
hmmm, it’s a thinker for sure. How best to modify a program so as to not include deadlifts.

Hmmm. Have you tried not deadlifting?[/quote]

Yes, but what should I replace them with?


#7

chin ups, pull ups, bent over rows, cleans, high pulls, snatches, yoke carry, farmers walk, overhead walk. Anything you want to replace them with. I never deadlift. T Rex arms dont make it comfortable. Sub it with any big or biggish exercise


#8

[quote]WeightsNoob wrote:
Is there any easy modification I could do to the 5x5 routine so that I would not be doing deadlifts? Please do not write here about the importance or value of deadlifts. I am simply asking for a way to modify the program as to not need to do deadlifts. Thanks[/quote]

Believe me, you need to do deadlifts. Unless you’ve got a very, VERY serious injury if you think you don’t need deadlifts you are sadly mistaken. You thinking you don’t need deadlifts makes me think you really need them a whole bunch.

If you just hate deadlifts because you suck at them, try figuring out which you suck at less between conventional and sumo. Then work on progressing your least sucky deadlift variation from a partial ROM movement to full ROM (so, for example, you could start pulling from high blocks or pins and work towards lowering their height until you can pull off the floor). You could even try trap bar deadlifts if you have access to a trap bar. If holding onto the bar is an issue because your grip strength is non-existant, there is nothing wrong with using straps while you do work to improve your grip.

If you have a serious injury preventing you from deadlifting, then you have my sincerest sympathy and I would suggest replacing DLs with remedial work with the goal of being able to do some form of deadlift safely in the future.


#9

I am all for programming without deadlifts, but I am waiting for some of the questions that have been asked to be answered.


#10

As mentioned above: farmer carries, cleans, more squatting, etcetera are good ideas-- or just say fuck it and don’t add anything. If you’re squattin often, I say you’re fine.


#11

To be honest I am mostly worried about injury. I do not really have or know anyone who can teach me the movement and be there every workout to make sure I am doing it right, I’m poor and just don’t have the money. So injury is mostly what I am concerned about


#12

I deadlift from the floor heavy about once every 2-3 months and that is not joke. Barbell Rows and Squats are an excellent deadlift booster.


#13

[quote]WeightsNoob wrote:
To be honest I am mostly worried about injury. I do not really have or know anyone who can teach me the movement and be there every workout to make sure I am doing it right, I’m poor and just don’t have the money. So injury is mostly what I am concerned about[/quote]

Very valid concerns. Do you have access to a camera/smartphone? If you do, this is what I’d suggest: checkout the EliteFTS ‘So you think you can deadlift?’ videos on Youtube and search for ‘deadlift’ on this site. Learn what you can about the basics. Then, head to the gym, stick some light weight on the bar and work up to the point where you actually have to struggle a little bit. You’re very unlikely to get hurt doing this. Film your lifts and post them here. You’ll get plenty of good feedback.

Take that all on board and work on your deadlift like you do the other lifts. There are plenty of people who get good results deadlifting occasionally, but they tend to be already very strong like reed. Early on, IMO you will do well using some kind of deadlift variation. It doesn’t have to be always heavy or always full ROM but you may very well find that your squat and DL feed off each other.


#14

[quote]Reed wrote:
I deadlift from the floor heavy about once every 2-3 months and that is not joke. Barbell Rows and Squats are an excellent deadlift booster.[/quote]

Is that how you always trained? You’re pretty advanced and pretty strong so it makes sense you only pull heavy occasionally. Did you always do that? Also, do you not DL at all in between those heavy pulls, or do you use lighter loads/block pulls etc?

I’ll admit I’m biased because the DL is my favourite of the three but I’ve noticed myself the heavier my max DL has gotten I do better pulling really heavy only once every three weeks or so. In between I still train the DL a fair bit, but light. Earlier on I could go heavy on the deadlift very often and recover just fine and it helped boost my squat a bunch too.


#15

[quote]MarkKO wrote:

Believe me, you need to do deadlifts. Unless you’ve got a very, VERY serious injury if you think you don’t need deadlifts you are sadly mistaken. You thinking you don’t need deadlifts makes me think you really need them a whole bunch. [/quote]

no, no you don’t. Why would he need them?


#16

[quote]Yogi wrote:

[quote]MarkKO wrote:

Believe me, you need to do deadlifts. Unless you’ve got a very, VERY serious injury if you think you don’t need deadlifts you are sadly mistaken. You thinking you don’t need deadlifts makes me think you really need them a whole bunch. [/quote]

no, no you don’t. Why would he need them?[/quote]

Because they’re one of the most ‘bang for your buck’ exercises out there. Anyone who can do them and does them is going to get a significant benefit, especially if they’re a beginner. They make everything stronger.

Sure, someone already strong who has very specific goals in mind might not need them at all. But someone who is starting a 5x5 program and who doesn’t have a debilitating deadlift-forbidding injury is going to be better off doing them rather than something else.

I mainly came out pretty hard because I wanted to see how OP reacted and get OP thinking about exactly why deadlifts weren’t needed. I try not to be overly opinionated because I haven’t got too much to show yet but I do feel strongly about deadlifts and how much good they do.


#17

[quote]MarkKO wrote:

[quote]Yogi wrote:

[quote]MarkKO wrote:

Believe me, you need to do deadlifts. Unless you’ve got a very, VERY serious injury if you think you don’t need deadlifts you are sadly mistaken. You thinking you don’t need deadlifts makes me think you really need them a whole bunch. [/quote]

no, no you don’t. Why would he need them?[/quote]

Because they’re one of the most ‘bang for your buck’ exercises out there. Anyone who can do them and does them is going to get a significant benefit, especially if they’re a beginner. They make everything stronger.

Sure, someone already strong who has very specific goals in mind might not need them at all. But someone who is starting a 5x5 program and who doesn’t have a debilitating deadlift-forbidding injury is going to be better off doing them rather than something else.

I mainly came out pretty hard because I wanted to see how OP reacted and get OP thinking about exactly why deadlifts weren’t needed. I try not to be overly opinionated because I haven’t got too much to show yet but I do feel strongly about deadlifts and how much good they do.[/quote]

Such dogma. There’s a million bang for your buck exercises, saying someone needs to do an exercise is just flat out wrong, and I think you know that.


#18

also, you didn’t even really give any reason why the deadlift, specifically, offers a particular benefit for the OP other than they are ‘bang for your buck’

EDIT: I’m not saying you’re wrong, necessarily as obviously there’s benefits to deadlifting, but there’s no NEED for anyone to do them, considering there’s a billion alternatives, so if a guy asks a question about programming without a deadlift then you might as well just answer the actual question


#19

OP didn’t give any reason (at all) why they didn’t want to deadlift. That led me to think this unwillingness to DL was lack of knowledge more than anything, or unwillingness to do something they weren’t good at. Hence my initial reply.

Had OP said they didn’t want to DL due to injury, immobility, etc I’d have suggested an alternative. Someone, seemingly pretty inexperienced, just saying they want to replace DLs in 5x5 and not wanting to hear how good they are doesn’t suggest to me a very valid reason to suggest alternatives without first finding out the real reason behind their unwillingness to DL.

As to bang for buck my top three reasons would be: uses pretty much every muscle from ankle to neck using nothing but raw strength since there’s little or no stretch reflex to help; feeds into and off the squat which is the other key to getting really strong all over; the back strength developed feeds into a huge amount of other lifts. There are others, but for me those are the main ones.


#20

sounds like a whole lot of assumption there, fella. That makes an ass out of you and umption.

Your post reeks of dogma. Like seriously stinks of it. I’m gagging on the stale, sweaty taste of dogma leeking out of you. Have a shower.