5x5 vs 5/3/1?

Bigger Stronger Leaner
21

[quote]rymo wrote:

[quote]dagill2 wrote:

[quote]rymo wrote:

[quote]dagill2 wrote:

[quote]MarkKO wrote:

[quote]nighthawkz wrote:

[quote]rymo wrote:
been lifting or 3 month no qutting like i used to do… gained some strngth and some size and lost fat from 225 lbsw to 182… now help me plz find a good plan 5x5 or 5 3 1 as all i did in 3 month was jst lifting and eating clean lifting random workouts chest day back day etc…did some low reps as low as 3 to admit… i think it what made me gain some strngth too[/quote]

We don’t know you. On what basis are we the right people to pick a program for you? But since you asked, fine. Calculate your training maxes and then do this:

Monday:

squats - 3x5 with 60% of your training max
deadlifts - 5/3/1 sets and reps
dips - 3 sets, AMRAP

Wednesday:
squats - 3x5 with 60% of your training max
bench press - 5/3/1 sets and reps
DB row - 3x10-15

Friday:
squats - 5/3/1 sets and reps
overhead press - 5/3/1 sets and reps
pull ups or lat pulldowns - 3x10-15

If you want to do cardio on top of this, carry a heavy-ish backpack (20-40lbs) for two miles on Tuesdays, Thursdays and Fridays.

Whether you pick this or something else, stick to it for at least six months. Changing things every week is the main reason people make no progress.[/quote]

You could do a lot worse than this. [/quote]

I second this. I’d probably make some minor modifications but not enough to be worth confusing you. Do this, make sure you fully understand what your training max is and isn’t. It is 90% of your current gym max. A max you could do most training days, with reasonable control, reasonable depth (on the squat/bench) and no help from a spotter etc. It is not a tool to measure your lifting dick with. Make it too high and you will limit your progress. I don’t know what happens if you set it too low, I’ve never seen anyone do it.

EDIT:
And post details of your diet, because it’s probably not as good as you think it is.[/quote]
i gotta tell u… i cant jst go to lift and do only 3 exsersiez,squats - 5/3/1 sets and reps
overhead press - 5/3/1 sets and reps
pull ups or lat pulldowns… bro i gotta do more voulme…[/quote]

Why?[/quote]
That way I do more work…
[/quote]

More is not better. More is more, better is better.

Without getting too personal, there have been plenty of guys who got much bigger and stronger than you using the approach outlined above, or similar. Including the posters giving you advice.

22

where did i go wrong… i been losing weight on scale…even u said i did gain muscle on shoulder and chest… i must be doing something right… but not good enough or me
this so important to me and i thought i was eating lots of protien… this is me a guy who cant do single pull up and finally 40 push up and 3 dips… i want it all i want to be strong…for god sake i take whey and amino fuel for amino…and i take e strong fat burner… i take L carntine and fish oil and pre workout no3 … i saved alot to buy these suppllments…

23

[quote]rymo wrote:
where did i go wrong… i been losing weight on scale…even u said i did gain muscle on shoulder and chest… i must be doing something right… but not good enough or me
this so important to me and i thought i was eating lots of protien… this is me a guy who cant do single pull up and finally 40 push up and 3 dips… i want it all i want to be strong…for god sake i take whey and amino fuel for amino…and i take e strong fat burner… i take L carntine and fish oil and pre workout no3 … i saved alot to buy these suppllments…[/quote]

Losing fat is primarily the result of eating less. You’ve done that so you’ve lost fat.

Diet wise, take your bodyweight in pounds x12. Those are your calories. Now, eat one gram of protein for every pound, 80-100g of fat and get the rest of your calories from carbs. ALWAYS eat fruits or veggies, with every meal.

24

[quote]rymo wrote:
where did i go wrong… i been losing weight on scale…even u said i did gain muscle on shoulder and chest… i must be doing something right… but not good enough or me
this so important to me and i thought i was eating lots of protien… this is me a guy who cant do single pull up and finally 40 push up and 3 dips… i want it all i want to be strong…for god sake i take whey and amino fuel for amino…and i take e strong fat burner… i take L carntine and fish oil and pre workout no3 … i saved alot to buy these suppllments…[/quote]
I really don’t know what you did wrong either.

Can someone explain?

25

This dude is a beginner that lost 43lbs of mostly fat in 3 months while gaining a bit of muscle. Seriously, what did he do wrong?

26

U saying I should stop trying to lose fat for now?
What the goal of the diet u provided… 5.8 tal 182 lbs so its 2196 cal
182 gram protien then what…

27

[quote]rymo wrote:

what u mean 45 kilo then followed by 531 sets[/quote]

Sorry, my bad.

Look at Wednesday, it says to do squats 3x5 at 60% then bench 531 sets and reps.

So, you’d do 3x5 squats at 60% of your training max and then bench press using 531 sets and reps - off the top of my head I don’t know what they are but there’s a Jim Wendler article here setting out the whole program.

28

[quote]dt79 wrote:

[quote]rymo wrote:
where did i go wrong… i been losing weight on scale…even u said i did gain muscle on shoulder and chest… i must be doing something right… but not good enough or me
this so important to me and i thought i was eating lots of protien… this is me a guy who cant do single pull up and finally 40 push up and 3 dips… i want it all i want to be strong…for god sake i take whey and amino fuel for amino…and i take e strong fat burner… i take L carntine and fish oil and pre workout no3 … i saved alot to buy these suppllments…[/quote]
I really don’t know what you did wrong either.

Can someone explain?[/quote]

I think that’s kind of everyone’s point here, OP did NOTHING WRONG.

What we’re trying to do is help him do something BETTER.

29

[quote]nighthawkz wrote:

[quote]rymo wrote:
where did i go wrong… i been losing weight on scale…even u said i did gain muscle on shoulder and chest… i must be doing something right… but not good enough or me
this so important to me and i thought i was eating lots of protien… this is me a guy who cant do single pull up and finally 40 push up and 3 dips… i want it all i want to be strong…for god sake i take whey and amino fuel for amino…and i take e strong fat burner… i take L carntine and fish oil and pre workout no3 … i saved alot to buy these suppllments…[/quote]

Losing fat is primarily the result of eating less. You’ve done that so you’ve lost fat.

Diet wise, take your bodyweight in pounds x12. Those are your calories. Now, eat one gram of protein for every pound, 80-100g of fat and get the rest of your calories from carbs. ALWAYS eat fruits or veggies, with every meal.[/quote]

This.

OP, you’ve done nothing wrong. But, you could do things that are much better than what you’ve been doing.

30

I think you have done a great job so far with the weight loss. If you feel like a change or have stalled then my recommendation would be a push pull split

push day
bench press : 4 sets of 8 reps
Military press : 4 sets of 10 reps
squat : 4 sets of 12
front leg kicks : 3 sets 15
close hand press ups: 3 sets taken to failure

pull day
dead lift: 5 sets of 5
chin ups : set a timer for 10 minutes and hit as many reps as you can get
bent over row: 4 sets of 12
hamstring curls : 4 sets of 10
barbell curls ; 4 sets of 10

Train 3 times a week alternating between the two sessions. Concentrate on keeping a strict 3 second negative on all reps ( excluding deads)

aim to make small increases each session to the weights.

Run this with your current diet and see what happens after a couple of months. I would say your diet is working for losing fat but it may need to change in order to build some mass.

31

As u said 100 gram of fat well…i guesdinstead of 5 egg white o would have 5 egg whites with its yolk is that okay… More protien… I also wanna ask u something and I know it gonna sound stupid… Cut I just do 5 3 1 the original one… I don’t like the low voilume of 5x5 …sorry i ask u alot…

32

[quote]MarkKO wrote:

[quote]dt79 wrote:

[quote]rymo wrote:
where did i go wrong… i been losing weight on scale…even u said i did gain muscle on shoulder and chest… i must be doing something right… but not good enough or me
this so important to me and i thought i was eating lots of protien… this is me a guy who cant do single pull up and finally 40 push up and 3 dips… i want it all i want to be strong…for god sake i take whey and amino fuel for amino…and i take e strong fat burner… i take L carntine and fish oil and pre workout no3 … i saved alot to buy these suppllments…[/quote]
I really don’t know what you did wrong either.

Can someone explain?[/quote]

I think that’s kind of everyone’s point here, OP did NOTHING WRONG.

What we’re trying to do is help him do something BETTER. [/quote]
But he already has the impression that despite his results, he’s doing something wrong. This is how people fall victim to dogma.

And what will make him do better than losing 43lbs of fat will putting 45lbs on his bench press? Unless he’s not training his legs I don’t see anything wrong with what he’s doing.

1 Like
33

I made great progress on 5 X 5 and I still run it now every now and again when I stall or fancy a change. You need forget your concerns over volume.

I feel what I wrote you above is the sweet spot for size gains with a beginner, and prepares you nicely to move on to a more dedicated strength program.

34

[quote]dt79 wrote:
This dude is a beginner that lost 43lbs of mostly fat in 3 months while gaining a bit of muscle. Seriously, what did he do wrong?[/quote]

I don’t think he did anything wrong. Those first few months of focussed fat loss have made a massive impact on his physique, more so than any strength program would have done. My responses where based around the assumption that he is now looking to increase strength and lean body mass, In which case I believe a simple strength template is the way to go right now.

35

OP, kudos on the fat loss, that’s some impressive work for three months time. Not to pile on, but the program that was written for you looks like a good next step. Like was said above, you’ve done nothing wrong, in fact you’ve done a lot of things right for what your goal was.

The thing is, we have to make adjustments periodically to continue making progress. That doesn’t mean change programs every three weeks, it just means to look at where you are and where you want to go and formulate a plan to get there - and then stick with it long enough to see what happens.

I started out similar to you years ago - I was weak, but I was skinny. I lifted for 3+ years, spinning my wheels and not eating enough to gain any weight because I believed what was in the muscle mags and didn’t want to get ‘too big’. When I finally bit the bullet and changed my diet, I gained 20 pounds of mostly muscle in 4 months time.

Point being, you’ve got some experienced guys giving you a good plan for your next step based off of your request for help. Guys are trying to give you help, but instead you are trying to get someone to tell you what you wanted to do anyway. Personally, I would go with either plan - the first one written for you above, or 531 with some of the add-ons Wendler recommends. But regarding your obsession with volume, remember what one of the guys said above - quality is better than quantity. Build strength, quality muscle will follow.

36

So 5 3 1 bodybuilding template is fine? Question to all of u guys

37

nighthawkz …now what i thiki i should do is foucs on more mass adding as u said…? now i can add white rice to my launch about 150 grams…and the whole egg instead of white… i wanna super strong… final word from u that did i really lose nice fat? i feel like lost…

38

[quote]rymo wrote:
So 5 3 1 bodybuilding template is fine? Question to all of u guys [/quote]

Final response from me, because I can see this edging towards an internet pissing contest. OP, you’ve done a great job losing the fat, don’t let anyone take that away from you. If you want to go down the route to strength and mass, the approach listed above is, I believe, a very good way to go, as is the 5/3/1 bodybuilding template Jim Wendler has written. Read some of Jim’s work, particularly around volume etc. IT will help you understand why the programs are structured like they are.

Good Luck, and enjoy the process.

39

[quote]dagill2 wrote:

[quote]rymo wrote:
So 5 3 1 bodybuilding template is fine? Question to all of u guys [/quote]

Final response from me, because I can see this edging towards an internet pissing contest. OP, you’ve done a great job losing the fat, don’t let anyone take that away from you. If you want to go down the route to strength and mass, the approach listed above is, I believe, a very good way to go, as is the 5/3/1 bodybuilding template Jim Wendler has written. Read some of Jim’s work, particularly around volume etc. IT will help you understand why the programs are structured like they are.

Good Luck, and enjoy the process.[/quote]
Aw come on it’s Christmas. No pissing contests.

40

[quote]rymo wrote:
So 5 3 1 bodybuilding template is fine? Question to all of u guys [/quote]
Pick any template that is closest to what you have been doing. This way you can see how you respond to small changes and work from there while having something to fall back on. There is no best template, program, method nor optimal amount of volume. YOU have to find out what works for you based on your results.