T Nation

5X5 and Insomnia??

Hi all, ive been doing Bill Stars 5X5 routine and Im currently in week 4. Its getting hard, but I have been making gains eating more and have added around half a stone to my weight. The only area ive not been able to consistently move the weight up is on military press although my shoulders are appearing a little fuller these days. Thats another topic anyway…

What is bothering me at the moment is that I’ve suddenly developed insomnia over the last month. I have interupted sleep about 4 or 5 nights a week. Weekdays especially I tend to wake between 4 and 5am and not be able to get off again.

It also takes me much longer to actually get off in the first place now. This seems to be worse on training days. I train after work (6pm) or on sundays 2pm and attempt sleep at 11.30pm. This problem seemed to start around the time I started this routine, but is now getting worse.

Im now worried that Im not sleeping enough to make gains - how accurate would this be - 5 hours sleep a night and being tired all day can’t be condusive to hypertrophy at all. Im actually worried about not sleeping now - how annoying is that? I’ll just be feeling sleepy after an hour of lying in bed then my mind will trick me into waking up.

I’ll suddenly remember I have insomnia and then im tossing and turning again. I’ll just about be ready to drop off and my 7.30am alarm will go off. Is my mind trying to punish me or something? Ive tried warm milk, herbal nytol, relaxing etc…

Anyone else experienced this before? It’s turning into a vicious cycle.

yep, i have noticed the same thing when i am training super hard…especially if i train later in the day. lifting in the morning seems to mollify this to some extend though.

Come to think of it, my sleep pattern has been a bit weird lately - for example I was up an hour before my alarm this morning - trust me this is UNHEARD of in my case as I would sleep all day if I didn’t have to work.

I’ve been incorporating 5x5 the past 2 weeks into my routine, but just the rep range not the proper program. My sleep is decent though (from 6-9hours) and I’m not tired during the day.

Maybe we’re hitting the weights a bit too hard…?

Ok 2 weeks off for everybody on 5X5. Beers are on me.

Seriosuly though, how annoying is it when your last safe refuge of the day (bed) becomes your enemy?! Ive finally found a program that works and I cant sleep enough to get 100% out of it. Gawdammit!!!

[quote]Benreturns wrote:
Ok 2 weeks off for everybody on 5X5. Beers are on me.

Seriosuly though, how annoying is it when your last safe refuge of the day (bed) becomes your enemy?! Ive finally found a program that works and I cant sleep enough to get 100% out of it. Gawdammit!!![/quote]

ZMA-it works, it’s cheap. Try it.

I had the same problem. I’m
currently doing a 10x3 plan working
out in the evenings (8-9) and
had noticed broken sleep at first.

Then, started using ZMA at bedtime.
Excellent deep sleep and awesome
dreams.

Give it a try.

I cant seem to find ZMA in the UK - does anyone know if it has a different brandname here? Unless im just delerious with sleep depreavation and not looking properly…! lmao

Right when you wake up, drink a protein drink, or eat something solid. You could be having blood sugar issues associated with the all out assault. 5X5 is tough shit esp with all of the compounds in it. Ditto with the ZMA. If you can’t find ZMA then find mag citrate, and any form of chelated zinc and take them together before bed. Zinc deficiencies are a big problem in our community.

DJ

Have you tried training before work? Might as well if you’re up at 5am. Do you have a desk job?

Also, how’s your eating? You should be getting a good PWO meal and a slow-digesting protein snack before bed in that time between 6pm and 11:30.

[quote]Benreturns wrote:
I cant seem to find ZMA in the UK - does anyone know if it has a different brandname here? Unless im just delerious with sleep depreavation and not looking properly…! lmao[/quote]

There are plenty of ZMA’s available in the UK i would recommend a product called ‘Zinc Matrix’ by Reflex Nutrition just google it.

Not expensive about ?11 for a months supply…
Also I second that recommendation of when you get up in the middle of the night and can’t get back to sleep have a protein shake this will stabilize your blood sugar and provoke more sleep…

ShadoW

ZMA.

I have read some where that insomnia could be a sign of overtraining, when was the last time you took a week off or at least deloaded?

Thanks for your input guys. I’ll try and address the points rasied:

post workout (7.15 - 7.30pm) I will take 4g of Glutamine straight away in water, whilst still at the gym. I then wait 5 mins or so and then have a protien/carb shake. Its 50g of protien and 60g of maltodextrin. Just over 500 Cals.

I then go home, bath & change and in about another 2 hours i will eat again - depends what exactly but always a pint of milk at least. Following that its bed at 11.30pm after doodling on the net or whatnot. Ive always had that post workout routine so im not sure why this situations just kicked in.

I had 6 days off training over the easter weekend (wasn’t by choice, but it seems to have not done me any harm - my lifts are still going up) so Im unsure if overtraining is the answer though I have never trained like this before, with this many compound movments.

I woke up again a couple of times during the last 2 nights although I managed to get back off again. I hope my body is not in the habit of now waking between 3-5am.

I will certainly look for some ZMA or equivalent.

Cheers again guys, apart from this I am loving the madcow routine.

[quote]Benreturns wrote:
I cant seem to find ZMA in the UK - does anyone know if it has a different brandname here? Unless im just delerious with sleep depreavation and not looking properly…! lmao[/quote]

You can get it from the Holand and Barrett website, they do their own brand and they carry Met-Rx as well. I haven’t yet found it in any of their stores but it is definately on the website.

I’m sure GNC must do it as well.

Good luck getting some kip.

Maximuscle does some quality products that are easily accescable in the uk they do all sorts check it out mate www.maximuscle.com

Maximuscle makes gives me stomach cramps and gets me running to the toilet within 3 hours of taking it. Tried Cyclone and then Promax. Both resulted in the same thing and my toilet hasn’t forgiven me for what i subjected it on that brand of supplements. A shame because it was convienent and easy to mix.

Got the ZMA and have no more trouble (in the last 4 days!) dropping off. Still waking occasionally but getting right back to sleep again.

What the hell has happened to my sweet dreams though???!
The night before last Michael Jackson was chasing me with a double barrelled shotgun and he trapped me in a bathroom until i shot him with the peice i suddenly discovered i was carrying. He went away and then when i returned with my late grandfather (he was a policeman) to inspect the scene there were jackos footsteps leading away out the window.

Last night was horrific - everyone i know was having a party round my house with a BBQ and everything was going great until the skies darkened. Sensing something wrong i returned inside to the kitchen and watched as the rain started to come down.

Everyone was raving in the rain having fun then as i watched my girlfriend and her friend was struck by lightning. I ran outside and my gf was ok but her friends hair had been burnt off and her eyes were bleeding. I woke up in shock nearly yelling and I couldnt let myself go back to sleep cause I was too scared of seeing that again lol…

On the plus side Im not as tired as i have been…

LOL, that sounds like my typical ZMA dreaming. It usually goes away after a while for me, but I haven’t been taking ZMA for a while now.

[quote]Benreturns wrote:
Got the ZMA and have no more trouble (in the last 4 days!) dropping off. Still waking occasionally but getting right back to sleep again.

What the hell has happened to my sweet dreams though???!
The night before last Michael Jackson was chasing me with a double barrelled shotgun and he trapped me in a bathroom until i shot him with the peice i suddenly discovered i was carrying. He went away and then when i returned with my late grandfather (he was a policeman) to inspect the scene there were jackos footsteps leading away out the window.

Last night was horrific - everyone i know was having a party round my house with a BBQ and everything was going great until the skies darkened. Sensing something wrong i returned inside to the kitchen and watched as the rain started to come down.

Everyone was raving in the rain having fun then as i watched my girlfriend and her friend was struck by lightning. I ran outside and my gf was ok but her friends hair had been burnt off and her eyes were bleeding. I woke up in shock nearly yelling and I couldnt let myself go back to sleep cause I was too scared of seeing that again lol…

On the plus side Im not as tired as i have been…[/quote]

This is the funniest ZMA dream story.

Get into it, mate. Learn how to control your dreams. It can be a helluva lot of fun. I’m not even going to mention the kind of shit you’ll experience while taking ALCAR.

DJ